Episode 35 - Coffee Tasting: Black and White Coffee Roasters -The Future PainKiller
Transcript
Foreign welcome to Dialed in.
Speaker A:I'm Wade Reed.
Speaker B:I'm Aaron Pascucci.
Speaker A:And tonight we are joined by our producer, Chris Lindstrom.
Speaker C:Hello.
Speaker C:Hello.
Speaker C:Hello.
Speaker C:It's been a minute, boys, and I'm excited to talk about some tasting and some tasting and then maybe some tasting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Tell us, what are we tasting?
Speaker C:Yeah, so I am.
Speaker C:So usually I'm buying most of my coffee locally, whether it be from.
Speaker C:From you, from.
Speaker C:From Aporia and AM fm.
Speaker C:If you want to get Aporia coffee.
Speaker A:You can go to AM fm.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:So I'm usually buying, you know, buying Pori and buying Joe Bean, and sometimes I'll get, you know, get the guest roaster from Ugly Duck locally.
Speaker C:But I have a few places that occasionally I'll grab from outside of town.
Speaker C:One of those is a service that Fellow operates called Fellow Drops.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And that is from the company that brings you the new coffee maker, the Aden, the ODE grinder, the scales and scales and kettles and all sorts of stuff.
Speaker C:Consistently good equipment.
Speaker C:A lot of people use it.
Speaker C:I'm definitely considering buying their coffee machine.
Speaker C:Yeah, the coffee maker.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:It's surprising how good their products are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think all of their stuff is very tempting.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I do.
Speaker C:I did see they just came out.
Speaker C:They just came out with an espresso machine, too.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:The one.
Speaker C:It's very interesting.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I kind of want to just read about it first and, like, hear somebody tell me about it that knows what.
Speaker A:They'Re doing if they wanted to send us one.
Speaker A:If anyone at Fellow is listening and wants to send us a Fellow one to demo.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Phil Fellow, you want to send us one?
Speaker C:We're going to listen.
Speaker A:Mr.
Speaker A:Fellow, Mrs.
Speaker A:Fellow.
Speaker B:I mean, not for nothing, but we do have a serious group of people in Rochester that could put this thing through its paces.
Speaker C:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker C:Well, I think that's the thing is, like, for when you're testing things, it's great to have experienced people.
Speaker C:It's great to do that.
Speaker C:And then there's people like me, like, hey, I like trying new stuff.
Speaker C:I like trying new coffees.
Speaker C:I like doing that.
Speaker C:And something about that, you know, that Drops thing they do, they send a text out and it's offered for that day, and you can buy one, two, or three bags of it, and it's to your house in three days directly from the roaster.
Speaker A:Like, okay, that's nice.
Speaker C:And I know it's.
Speaker C:It's an interesting system, and it's an exclusive coffee to them.
Speaker C:So it's a whole thing that doesn't work for everybody, but for the places it does work for, it's a pretty interesting idea.
Speaker C:So there was one that came across on the text a couple weeks ago, a week or so ago, and this one was from a roaster in North Carolina called Black and White Roasters.
Speaker C:Wade, you want to talk about Black and white for a second for what you know about them?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm trying to find some things on social media that I should have, I should have come with, but, but from what I know, so two former barista champions who, who founded the company.
Speaker A:I can.
Speaker A:Only one of the names is escaping me at the moment, but Lem Butler is one of them.
Speaker A:Who.
Speaker A:Anyone who's had any interaction with Lem Butler knows that I, I mean, just one of the best ambassadors that Specialty Coffee has.
Speaker A:Lem, you know, he's, he's a champion.
Speaker A:He's made a great name for himself, but he is so all about the industry and all about lifting up others and making things more accessible.
Speaker A:You know, I think his experience in the coffee industry vis a vis race has, has been really instructive for him and he's always trying to open those doors for others.
Speaker A:So I get behind black and white 100%.
Speaker A:And my understanding is, although it's not on social media anymore, but my understanding is that Kat Melheim, who was the founder and editor of Coffee People Zine, was their head roaster for a time.
Speaker A:But that might have changed.
Speaker A:Don't quote me on any of this because I just don't see it on their social media at the moment.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:The reason it might have changed is because the company was recently acquired by Fairwave, which is a venture capital backed group that's buying up some smaller coffee roasters, coffee shops and other kind of coffee adjacent companies to aggregate their resources as opposed to building like, you know, a huge portfolio for hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's, it's kind of a smaller alternative, but it is offering kind of an exit strategy.
Speaker A:And it's interesting because I can remember Lem's name better than the other owner at the moment, but Lem actually left the company as soon as it was acquired.
Speaker A:So founded with a great vision, brought in some great talent, and now the future of it may be a little up in the air.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Good thing we got a hold of this one.
Speaker A:We did, right?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And what I noticed when this came across my feed was that this is, I think when Aaron came in, I was describing this as an extreme coffee, not from the like We've maximized our caffeine, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:We are maximizing our output.
Speaker B:I was assuming it was bungee jumping.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:So that's mostly how the process goes.
Speaker A:With like a skateboard deck stream coffee.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The bungee jump is agitating the beans during fermentation.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:I mean, it is bouncy, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Sounds.
Speaker A:Sounds delicious.
Speaker C:So when this came across my feed, the thing that grabbed me was that this was multiple co fermentations.
Speaker C:And their goal was to make the coffee taste like a painkiller cocktail, which is kind of a tiki drink that has like coconut, lime, passion fruit and rum.
Speaker C:It's a pretty straightforward cocktail.
Speaker C:It's very friendly.
Speaker C:And when I saw that, I'm like, man, that's a really ambitious idea.
Speaker C:This is either going to be really delightful or this is going to be a crazy abomination.
Speaker C:That's terrible.
Speaker C:Or it could be a crazy abomination.
Speaker C:That's really good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like, you see it with breweries all the time.
Speaker A:They do that sour that has like five things you love in it.
Speaker A:And then you taste it and you're like, absolutely.
Speaker A:This fell apart somewhere in the process.
Speaker A:Or like, occasionally, like, it is just an absolute revelation.
Speaker B:So the worst part, the Mexican hot chocolate stout that everybody's doing, I've only had one that's been good.
Speaker C:Choco Vesa.
Speaker B:It's you.
Speaker B:You taste it, you're like, this is going to be great cocoa in a stout.
Speaker B:Add a little bit of pepper or cayenne or something, and.
Speaker B:And now it just falls flat so many times.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker C:There's a few.
Speaker C:And one of that I mentioned is Choco Vesa, which is Stones.
Speaker C:And then I think there was one for a while that was like a Chase beer, I think was called Abraxas.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I don't remember where that's from, but I remember, I think Adam.
Speaker A:This is an Adam Solomon beer.
Speaker A:That's so funny.
Speaker C:The first time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And just one of those, like, I'd say now, like, classic, like, craft beer hype beers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:That was specifically, for a while, one of those, like, oh, this is very much.
Speaker C:It was very much of the time.
Speaker C:And it was really delightful, too.
Speaker C:I mean, it was really well made.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So for me, when.
Speaker C:When I taste.
Speaker C:When I saw this, I'm like, I'm going to try this.
Speaker C:You know, it's priced accordingly.
Speaker C:I think the price per bag was in the, like mid-20s plus shipping.
Speaker A:That's all right.
Speaker C:Which, considering all the processing done to it, that's pretty reasonable.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's a 12 ounce bag too.
Speaker C:Sometimes you're getting that for eight ounce bags.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Or less.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So at a 12 ounce bag, I'm like, okay, I'm pretty good with that.
Speaker C:And so it showed up like three days later and pulled it out and smelled it right away.
Speaker C:I'm like, got it.
Speaker C:This is going to be really good.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker C:So we've talked about co ferments a bit, but I haven't had a lot of them.
Speaker C:I don't know if you guys have had a lot of co ferments.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not something I seek out.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'm.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:Yeah, I have a beat on.
Speaker A:You all know Gold Mountain via Joe Bean.
Speaker A:So I've got a beat on like a past crop one that they're still really excited about that they have vac sealed and stuff that I'm like, maybe I'll bring it in.
Speaker A:I have to kind of convince the money people, you know, and do some educational stuff with it.
Speaker A:You know, do something that's gonna generate a little more revenue with it.
Speaker A:So who knows if I'll have time to, you know, make all of that kind of plan to do that.
Speaker A:But yeah, as far as like going out and buying them just to drink and enjoy them, yeah, I haven't really sought any out.
Speaker A:I definitely haven't sought out any to roast.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I actually have to think that I was very boring in my coffee drinking for a long time because I drink what Wade produces and it's all good.
Speaker A:Just boring.
Speaker B:But like, Chris brought this up and I was like, I need to like, actually go, like choose some coffee.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, like the other day we were, we came back and we were out and I was like, what are we going to do?
Speaker B:And I even tried to like, I was like, joby's got to have some good stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But then I couldn't make it down there because they.
Speaker B:They're not open on the weekends very much at all.
Speaker C:What are they?
Speaker A:Yeah, they don't have any weekend.
Speaker C:Eight to five.
Speaker B:And so like, I missed it, you know, Friday.
Speaker B:And then I was like, well, Saturday, Sunday, they're closed.
Speaker C:And yeah, it's eight to five weekdays and that's it.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I have Carrie go most of the time because I don't.
Speaker C:I'm not a subscribed kind of person.
Speaker C:I want, you know, I want to go or, you know, it's nice for her to go and grab and talk to people.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:Um, yeah.
Speaker C:And I mean, you know, consistency has been great, but I, I like the experimentation.
Speaker C:I like trying some of the weird stuff sometimes.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And I'll try, I'll taste anything they bring in it.
Speaker A:Like ugly duck.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, you know, that's one of the great things about interacting with a multi roaster so much as much as I do absolutely.
Speaker A:Is getting to try, try some of those things, you know.
Speaker A:But I'm sure again they're curating all of it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And when, so when I, when I got the first smell of this, this was so evocative of the notes that they listed.
Speaker C:Now I'll say for, you know, different, different times and different, like I've messed around with it.
Speaker C:I've had it on Camex, I've had it on a few different ways and I think some of the fruits come out differently depending on how you're making it.
Speaker C:But the first time I tasted it, it was so coconut cream and passion fruit.
Speaker C:So like I said, this is coconut, key lime, passion fruit and dark rum.
Speaker C:And right now it's actually playing more rum and more like coconut and lime versus passion fruit.
Speaker C:When I first smelled it, it was so smelling like fresh passion fruit.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:That it was like, I can't believe I don't have a passion fruit in my hand right now.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's what sticks out to you aroma wise.
Speaker A:Just what I smelled when I came in.
Speaker A:I'm wondering something like, are they pulling a dark room note from actual like molasses in the co ferment or.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Because there are a couple ways you could do that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You could rest it on oak.
Speaker A:You could again, molasses in the co ferment.
Speaker A:I don't know how effective that would be because like all the microbes in the fermentation process would just eat up the molasses, wouldn't they?
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't, I, I don't know.
Speaker A:That would be my assumption.
Speaker C:And I kind of wonder because like alcohol itself would probably slow the fermentation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't think you kill.
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker C:It's either slowing or killing.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And I kind of wonder, did they just like, like I've, I've tasted, you know, whiskey rested coffee beans after.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, and I've had that and that's been good.
Speaker A:I remember there's a lot you can do on oak, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, we did a lot of that kind of thing at Joe Bean.
Speaker A:Always wanted to do that since then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because I think there was the gin One you guys did a long time ago.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Was the gin.
Speaker A:Might have been after my time.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:We did.
Speaker A:Was the Zimbabwe that we did on gin barrels.
Speaker C:I don't remember which coffee was.
Speaker C:I remember a gin experiment once.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So, like, these kind of things are fascinating and I.
Speaker C:What I loved about it when I first tasted it was it was so explosively what it said.
Speaker C:I'm like, great.
Speaker C:They accomplished exactly what they wanted to accomplish with this.
Speaker C:It's really fruity.
Speaker C:And what I mentioned while we were.
Speaker C:While we were brewing is that to me, when I tasted it, I was also pretty impressed that I thought the base coffee and I can't taste all of the base coffee.
Speaker C:I thought it was well roasted.
Speaker C:I had good acidity and made me want to try one of the regular single origin roasts instead of just the extreme stuff.
Speaker C:They have a good amount of extreme stuff on the website.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, they've got another one on the website right now.
Speaker C:They've got a competition blend and then they have a sangria blend with different co.
Speaker C:Ferments.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker C:And I think that's with like grapes, peach, pineapple, and like other things.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:I mean, that's pretty intuitive stuff.
Speaker A:I mean, I would think that's cool.
Speaker C:And it makes sense.
Speaker C:So, I mean, let's taste now and see what you guys are getting.
Speaker C:Because it has changed a little bit, I think.
Speaker C:Or, you know, depending on what I'm doing, I might have brewed it differently or something.
Speaker C:This isn't quite as light.
Speaker C:I think when I do it, mine is a little more dense.
Speaker C:And when Carrie does it, she might have a little more water leak.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:Into the.
Speaker C:Into the bottom of it, and it's more clear and expressive.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker C:Because she's.
Speaker C:She'll miss the filter sometimes while she's pouring, and often I really enjoy it more.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, a good bypass brew that's been pretty standard on every, like, automated coffee brewer for how long?
Speaker A:So, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I'm at.
Speaker C:This is at 18 to 1, and it's still like, right now it's a little bit dense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, you're talking to the wrong guy because, like, I do like, 15, five, you know.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker A:16 is usually pushing it for me.
Speaker C:I've been enjoying this kind of clarity.
Speaker A:I've heard you say this before, and I'm.
Speaker A:I'm like, man, I just.
Speaker A:I just don't get definition out of clarity.
Speaker A:Like, I see what you're saying with clarity.
Speaker A:And let me, let me just backtrack a little bit.
Speaker A:It's very pleasant and I get a lot of, a lot of the flavors, you know, that you're talking about.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:In this coffee for sure.
Speaker A:And like that aroma of, of passion fruit was so cool, right?
Speaker A:Passion fruit was absolutely.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker C:Passion fruits, hard to.
Speaker C:It's hard to miss.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Like, if it's there, it's there.
Speaker A:So like, I'm just not accustomed to especially a kalita at this ratio.
Speaker C:So I'm interesting.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:My kalita is like, you can chew them.
Speaker C:Like, I did that for a long time.
Speaker C:I was probably under 16.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think I found that I enjoy lighter, more articulate style brewing.
Speaker C:I don't like over watered.
Speaker C:To me, I think this hits the balance that I enjoy in coffee is I really want to work through the details and I like that separation and acidity and those things.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And I care less about the density.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So personally, this is how I've started brewing most of the time is like this.
Speaker C:So if I'm doing 30 grams in the morning, I'm doing 540.
Speaker C:Water.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I've definitely, I've heard you say this before and I'm like, man, that's.
Speaker A:I mean, that's definitely a different vibe.
Speaker A:But I will say, like, with coffees like this, it's perfect.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like with coffees like this, you see exactly why you want, like, you want something that spreads out a lot more.
Speaker A:And like, like I said, I feel like there's definition in a higher tds.
Speaker A:But I wonder genuinely if something would get as clear as like a passion fruit.
Speaker A:You know, that passion fruit flavor makes.
Speaker C:Me want to try it at that.
Speaker A:Lower or at that higher tds.
Speaker C:So you want to try it tomorrow morning?
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, I want to bring my refractometer in here now.
Speaker A:Like, let's just, let's just straight up.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker C:Backpack.
Speaker A:Yeah, I wish.
Speaker C:Is it in your backpack?
Speaker C:Like my wireless microphone?
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:I should start carrying it around, I guess.
Speaker B:But we're just gonna show up and there's gonna be, you know, a SLR camera, some microphones, and a refractometer everywhere.
Speaker A:We go and hopefully a fellow one.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You're gonna be like, like, I've definitely brought like, I've brought maldon salt in a tin.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Into a place before.
Speaker C:And like, man, if you, if you have the right audience, it's a great hook because like, people are like, the hell are you doing that for?
Speaker C:And if you pulled out a Refractometer right now, I would have flipped my shit.
Speaker C:I would have loved it.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, like, I used to sit behind the bar at Fifth Frame pipetting, you know, stuff into my refractometer.
Speaker A:And that just raised all kinds of eyebrows.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that was, you know, very.
Speaker B:What does a refractometer go for these days?
Speaker A:It depends.
Speaker A:They're actually quite cheaper versions now.
Speaker A:I mean, when I was.
Speaker A:When I was purchasing mine and VST was kind of the only game in town, it was like 800 bucks.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was gonna say they're not a cheap tool.
Speaker A:No, but they've gotten cheap.
Speaker A:There are cheaper versions, and I don't know if they're as reliable.
Speaker A:VST I still.
Speaker A:I still think of as industry standard.
Speaker A:Like, can't get better than that George Howell stamp of approval.
Speaker A:But, like, for me, I mean, for us old heads, but, like, I.
Speaker A:I do think you can find some relatively cheaper ones.
Speaker A:Like, and it's weird.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:Like, it's all gotten kind of weird ever since George Howell kind of came out with, well, you need two different settings for brewed coffee and espresso.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So now you go on to, like, Alto Cold brew.
Speaker A:And under their commercial tab, they have the cold brew refractometer.
Speaker A:And you're like, how.
Speaker A:How different is it really?
Speaker A:Like, is that really a thing?
Speaker A:I don't actually know.
Speaker A:That kind of reminds me 600 bucks, so I'm probably never gonna find out.
Speaker C:That kind of reminds me of the.
Speaker C:Of the Riedel glass selection for wine.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Where you can get a glass for any varietal of grape and it's.
Speaker C:I mean, a lot of them.
Speaker C:And I'm like, eh.
Speaker C:I mean, they're very nice glasses.
Speaker C:They're very well made.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker A:No doubt, no doubt.
Speaker B:But do I really need a pinot and a chardonnay glass?
Speaker C:And they certainly have those individual varietal glasses.
Speaker C:And like, this is supposed to emphasize this.
Speaker C:I'm like, really?
Speaker C:Are you saying, like, Chardonnay from the Loire Valley, from the Finger Lakes and from Napa and from South Africa.
Speaker C:All are optimized by going in this glass, Is that what you're saying?
Speaker A:What are the beer glass, Taku glasses?
Speaker A:Tiku glasses?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, same idea.
Speaker A:Like, oh, man, as soon as I tried it in that, it was totally different.
Speaker A:I'm like, maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe your glasses were just dirty.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:Like, what are you.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker C:Like, do you wash your regular glasses?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, maybe invest in some brushes and it's the Same, who knows.
Speaker C:Did you just need a brand new glass and you feel that way?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, we might have an episode coming up though because there are refractometers on Amazon.
Speaker B: They're: Speaker B:I'm just gonna say, you know, with 150% markup they're only going to be, you know, 70 bucks after that.
Speaker A:Made in America.
Speaker A:Made in America, I gotta say.
Speaker A:So we're gonna revive the refractomet, the tariffs.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So anyways, back to coffee.
Speaker C:All that to be said.
Speaker C:I think this one, you know, one.
Speaker C:I just figured it'd be fun to taste.
Speaker C:There's not that much to break down because what does it taste like?
Speaker C:It tastes like what the bag says.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:It tastes like coconut, key lime, passion fruit and dark rum.
Speaker C:I get the rum, I get passion fruit, I get lime, I get coconut.
Speaker C:I think it's a well made coffee.
Speaker C:I think it's well roasted.
Speaker C:Be honest.
Speaker C:I'm going to buy some of their extreme coffees again because yeah, this made.
Speaker B:Me want to go out and buy like two or three just to see what they're gonna taste like.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And Carrie really enjoyed it.
Speaker C:Everybody I've had smell it is like whoa, that's really interesting.
Speaker C:And I like that it doesn't taste like natural flavors.
Speaker C:It tastes like the things that it says it tastes like.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:In big amounts.
Speaker C:And you know what?
Speaker C:I like it quite a bit.
Speaker C:I'm really glad I bought it and makes me want to buy from them again.
Speaker C:So shout out to black and white for doing a really good job with a very interesting coffee and warning to.
Speaker A:Fair wave not to screw this up for them.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Keep letting them play in this domain because it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're doing it right and that's cool.
Speaker A:I mean I can't imagine how, how good you have to be to know going into the like receiving the green.
Speaker A:It has to have these characteristics and then roast it so that it absolutely brings those out.
Speaker A:Like that's.
Speaker A:That's super impressive to me.
Speaker C:Yeah, very talented.
Speaker B:I was looking.
Speaker B:Did they say what it was co fermented with?
Speaker C:I was trying to find anything.
Speaker C:I'm going to.
Speaker C:So while we, while we go, while we pivot on to the next thing.
Speaker C:I'm going to look a little bit into fellow and see if I can get all the details on it so we can go through that also just.
Speaker C:I'm on their website right now, Black and white.
Speaker C:They have a wide selection of different coffees available.
Speaker C:They've got, you know, thermal shot coffees.
Speaker C:They've got, you know, just classic single origins.
Speaker C:They've got one of their anniversary coffees.
Speaker C:Gesha.
Speaker C:They've got all sorts of different things.
Speaker C:So really interesting place.
Speaker C:If you're gonna try something from a different place, give them a shot.
Speaker A:Pretty cool.
Speaker C:So I'll hand it off to you while I do a little bit of research.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So, Aaron, do you want to talk?
Speaker A:Do you want to talk?
Speaker B:I do want to talk.
Speaker A:Or sca.
Speaker A:No, I'm kidding.
Speaker A:Do you want to talk tariffs or do you want to talk tasting?
Speaker B:Well, I'm going to go.
Speaker B:SC kind of swept over me this year.
Speaker B:I didn't get a chance to look at anything I saw.
Speaker B:Bob.
Speaker A:You mean the Expo?
Speaker A:Yeah, I didn't.
Speaker A:I didn't keep up with really much from Expo because there were a lot of things that happened pre Expo that I was trying to dig into and actually just got to talk to someone about today.
Speaker B:So my thoughts were I need to put it on my calendar for next year and, like, plan on going.
Speaker B:I haven't been.
Speaker B:And I've been to, like, what was.
Speaker B:Apple has their conference every year, wwdc.
Speaker B:I went to that when it was in San Francisco, like two or three times.
Speaker B:And that was really cool.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:And so in my head I'm like, why haven't I gone to something I care more about?
Speaker A:Yeah, this would actually make more sense.
Speaker B:I did realize it's because I'm a teacher and my entire calendar has been the same for the last, like 40 years of my life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Def.
Speaker A:Well, and like, April's probably an interesting time going into, like, your last quarter of the year.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Like last quarter of the year.
Speaker B:And it's right after spring break.
Speaker B:So, like, technically I'm not supposed to take off that week at all.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, but do they know about SCA Expo?
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:Norman Howard.
Speaker B:Although, actually my new vice principal, Nick Farnalli.
Speaker B:Do you want to go to SCA with me?
Speaker B:Because I think you do.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:But anyway, so you were talking something.
Speaker B:So you want to SCA normally?
Speaker A:Yeah, so.
Speaker A:So tariffs are tasting.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:Let's talk about.
Speaker B:Let's keep going.
Speaker B:Tasting.
Speaker A:Let's go on tasting.
Speaker A:Okay, so a couple of really interesting things have happened in the world of tasting.
Speaker A:So the.
Speaker A:The Q grader exam has always been administered by the Coffee Quality Institute, which has strong ties to SCA and has for a while been seen as kind of more or less a subsidiary of sca.
Speaker A:I don't think that's entirely accurate though, because just before Expo they announced that SCA is taking over the administration of the Q Grader assessment.
Speaker A:So they're doing a couple of things with this.
Speaker A:They're actually changing it over from the, from the old standard Q Grader assessment to the Coffee Value assessment, which we've talked about previously on this podcast.
Speaker A:And so when the first time.
Speaker A:So this was actually the right.
Speaker A:So this is the announcement that I saw was the Coffee Value Assessment to be employed in Q Grader assessment.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, that's so cool.
Speaker A:I'm so happy.
Speaker A:I'm so glad because, you know, we're getting much better sensory science.
Speaker A:We're not relying on the single hundred point scale.
Speaker A:We're doing sort of these affective impressions as well as like as much objective calibration as we can.
Speaker A:And we're trying to pull these things together and we're trying to have a view on the larger impact of the coffee in the world.
Speaker A:I was so excited and then I saw what people think of this.
Speaker B:Oh, let me just read you the.
Speaker A:Daily Coffee News headline.
Speaker A:Emotions and details emerge as SCA plans takeover of the queue.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:I get this.
Speaker A:I get one of.
Speaker B:Is this where we snap and they show up?
Speaker B:Star.
Speaker B:Star Trek.
Speaker C:I was gonna say.
Speaker C:I was gonna say John de Lancing.
Speaker C:And also I really wish I had the Joe Hendry song on my soundboard.
Speaker C:When you say his name, he appears.
Speaker C:Search for Joe Hendry.
Speaker C:If you don't know this, if you're a wrestling person, it's amazing.
Speaker A:I am too deep in the coffee world.
Speaker A:I was gonna say I've been reading about this and not once thought of the Star Trek reference, but keep going.
Speaker A:But yeah, so I get one of Fresh cups substack newsletters and it was all about like this, like they.
Speaker A:How unhappy some people are at this change.
Speaker A:And like I was like, come on guys, we can't just hold on to the old ways.
Speaker A:There's so much more behind this that I like literally just found out in the last couple days that I'm like, wow, this is another.
Speaker B:Well, okay, so what are the high points?
Speaker A:So what we love, we love the Coffee value assessment.
Speaker A:We love sensory science.
Speaker A:We love that sensory science is making advances, that it's going to continue to grow and have an impact on our industry, that we can look at something that doesn't necessarily fit the hundred point scale perfectly and go, hey, look at that.
Speaker A:Like, it's still a good coffee for these reasons.
Speaker A:And then the people growing that coffee can receive value from it.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're all for that.
Speaker A:But what I'm hearing and what I'm reading is that SCA is no longer going to allow people who are renewing their Q to show up and take like a single assessment on a single day.
Speaker A:They're going to make you go to a two day seminar and if you want to get an, if you want to become a new Q grader, you have to go to a six day assessment.
Speaker C:Holy cow.
Speaker A:So it's, so it's really interesting to me because for about the past 10 years SCA has been accused of being more of an events organization than a professional organization.
Speaker A:You know, like they have their one big expo, they have their competitions and they're doing more to just hold events and generate revenue than they are to actually support the industry.
Speaker A:And here we have an example where they've turned something that was like, you know, two, three days of assessment into six days of, of training, which becomes very much an event in someone's life.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And the kind of kicker of all of this is that CQI is dissolving.
Speaker A:So Coffee Quality Institute is going away.
Speaker C:Oh wow.
Speaker A:And all the in country partners who were sending coffees to Q graders to be marked as specialty coffee are, have stopped.
Speaker A:They're not sending any coffees out right now.
Speaker A:If you can't receive a coffee from a professional body, grade it, send it back and get paid to do that.
Speaker A:Why in God's name would you go spend six days and a thousand dollars getting this Q grader qualification?
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:There's no, they're completely dis, everything's been completely disincentivized.
Speaker A:And SCA just once again kind of shows up, finds a way to generate revenue and just isn't really here for the people.
Speaker A:Like there's no benefit on the back end.
Speaker A:Now someone I talked to indicated that maybe if you had a close enough relationship with an in country partner, they might be passing you coffees.
Speaker A:There might be some small cadre of people out there still grading coffees, but right now it's not a viable career path at all.
Speaker C:And that's kind of like if you're going to do that kind of effort, if you're going to do that kind of work, if you're going to dedicate that much of your time to like really learning that process, learning all the methods, learning not just the methods, but how to describe these things and the way they want you to describe it.
Speaker A:Being calibrated, staying calibrated, standardizing at all Times.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's.
Speaker C:It's a lot of work.
Speaker A:I mean, and it's $1,000.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, not for nothing.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:That's, that's a lot of money for a lot of people in our industry, so.
Speaker A:For what?
Speaker A:For window dressing.
Speaker A:Someone said to me, well, you could, you could still.
Speaker A:You could like, judge like the U.S.
Speaker A:brewers Cup.
Speaker A:And you're like, that's a volunteer position.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, I got my WSET spirit, sir, just to get it.
Speaker C:And from that, you know, I paid hundreds of dollars for that.
Speaker C:I think it was close to $400.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:And that was for an online course, right?
Speaker C:No, in person.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And like, it's not cheap.
Speaker C:None of these, like, certs, industry certs are cheap.
Speaker C:And to get to that thousand dollar level, especially for something when you really would like to get a return from it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And not just because you're a passionate nerd, like I am.
Speaker C:Like, you want a professional return from this and you should.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:For that kind of thing, it's become window dressing, which.
Speaker A:And, and it's.
Speaker A:I, it's.
Speaker A:It's hard because, like, it used to be so, like, our sommeliers, right.
Speaker A:Like our Q graders were our sommeliers, and these are the people who, like, kept the rest of the industry kind of honest about what was good.
Speaker A:Like, like, if you ever got in a conversation about quality coffee, you'd almost always end up mentioning or talking a little bit about, like, the queue.
Speaker A:Well, these people, they do it, you know, like when Janine was on here, you know, talk to her about this yet?
Speaker A:I'd love to.
Speaker A:To Janine about it, but she's in a.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:She's super busy with other projects right now.
Speaker A:So in just hearing from her, like, how intense that is, it really lends credibility to what the rest of us are saying about how good our coffee is.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And where is that gonna go?
Speaker A:How is that gonna pan out?
Speaker A:Like, if people can't even get the coffees to apply the knowledge and the skill to.
Speaker B:Well, and then what does that do to just the people, like, buying coffee and drinking coffee if that's all gone now?
Speaker B:Like, is it just now out in the ether and it's like, yeah, this has blueberry.
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is it up to the roaster now?
Speaker A:Well, it's interesting.
Speaker A:I mean, if you get rid of the hundred point scale, or you at least go beyond the 100 point scale, and you can't say, yeah, specialty coffees are coffees that score 85 or above, which Is like, when I entered the industry, that's how we used to say it.
Speaker A:Like, like on this 100 point scale, they scored 85 or above.
Speaker A:And then that got scaled back to 80 and it was like I, or 82 or something like that.
Speaker A:And I was like, I totally understand why you do that.
Speaker A:There's a lot of really good coffee that scores an 83 and like coffee that I probably still really love.
Speaker A:And then you get this coffee value assessment that broadens it out even more and, and allows for the idea of an impression of a coffee to market as valuable as specialty or however you want to call it.
Speaker A:So I'm, I'm, I'm really torn because I'm like, okay, are we democratizing or are we just forfeiting credibility and professionalism?
Speaker C:Man, we've never had a conversation like that before, ever.
Speaker A:Nothing.
Speaker B:This was.
Speaker A:I don't want to talk about it.
Speaker B:Well, I don't want to do this again.
Speaker C:Wait, we're, we're, what are we doing with quality?
Speaker C:We're rolling the dice.
Speaker C:Rolling the dice.
Speaker C:But no, I think it's a conversation that one I've loved.
Speaker C:Like, we've had this like so many times in our, in our past.
Speaker C:And it's something that I think we both care about deeply in general about quality.
Speaker C:And I've had this conversation with my friends in the industry who are not, you know, food and drink industry in general, not just not coffee, but other sides of the industry as well.
Speaker C:And you know, as a spirits judge as well, you know, it's, it's hard to tolerate mediocrity.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:And I struggle with that.
Speaker C:And at the same time, there is a lot, there's a lot of subjectivity in what you're saying and that, yes, the wider range of subjectivity doesn't always lend itself to a number, but having dedicated professionals that dedicate time and money and are bringing expert opinions to things, especially, you know, not especially right now, but like, experts need, experts need to be treated like the dedicated professionals that they are in whatever field they are operating in.
Speaker C:And the fact that we have dedicated professionals that have honed their senses and provided value for the industry for us to enjoy things better.
Speaker C:I love that we had and maybe will continue to have experts who are doing this thing at a very high level that I can feel good about it.
Speaker C:I can feel good that they've done a good job.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:And I love experts.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, I love experts.
Speaker B:And at the very least, they're creating somewhat of a baseline with their tasting notes and Everything.
Speaker C:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:I mean, definitely.
Speaker B:You know, the layperson can come in and say, you know, we got passion fruit, we got white wine, we got, you know, grape, whatever it is they're putting in there, and there's at least an expectation of flavor notes in general going to come out of this.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:You know, how many times have you gotten a coffee somewhere at X Place and there's nothing like.
Speaker B:It tastes sort of like coffee.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, so this at least gives the.
Speaker B:Like, you said, it's the look of quality, and there's a little bit of a stamp on it that you know it's gonna be better than that.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:And sometimes the baseline is as simple as, like, free of defects.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like someone tasting for the off flavors, which is another conversation we've had.
Speaker A:Something's only a defect until somebody likes it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And it just seems like this is the prevailing mentality.
Speaker A:And I think, Chris, you know, you didn't want to say, especially these times, but, like, like, we really are living in a discourse of, like, that disrespects expertise, that disrespects technical knowledge, that disrespects the notion that someone has any background that would allow them to properly judge something in a way that someone else might not judge it.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I'll say, like.
Speaker C:Like I said, I'm usually pretty careful.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't publicize a coffee podcast.
Speaker A:Not yet.
Speaker A:I totally.
Speaker A:I don't totally understand, but generally speaking.
Speaker C:But it's the thing I'm most.
Speaker C:One of the things I'm most distressed about in, you know, society in general right now is that we are, you know, the.
Speaker C:The ignoring of expertise is so distressing because I love learning so deeply and truly, and I love being around people that know more than me.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:About something.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:My absolute favorite thing to do is to be around people that know more about something than I do and have a real conversation and walk away having learned something.
Speaker C:And you know what?
Speaker C:I don't have the luxury of being directly around everybody in every field that's an expert.
Speaker C:And when I find those people, I'm going to say a wild statement for a second.
Speaker C:Their dedication and expertise is way more valuable than your opinions.
Speaker C:This is a career based on research and testing and knowledge and observation, and their observation is worth more than your anecdote, and their general thoughts are worth more than your anecdote because they have practiced and they know what they're doing.
Speaker C:And that matters.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker C:It matters.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:I'll say it for coffee, I'll say it for spirits, I'll say it for beer.
Speaker C:I'll say it for food and drink and I'll say it for society and science in general.
Speaker A:Medicine.
Speaker B:All of this I was going to say.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And here's what really gets me.
Speaker B:That's what you're right.
Speaker B:It's your opinion.
Speaker B:And I don't even have words to say how ridiculous it is that you are putting your opinion on something that isn't fact based.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And that's what it comes back to.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think these, these are challenging.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:This, this has their taste is always lives in a more subjective world.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:That they do have some facts behind it.
Speaker C:Of course.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And I'm not saying that they don't, but it's.
Speaker C:It lives in a more subjective world where what you like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Is this case more important?
Speaker C:Sometimes.
Speaker A:And then the value assessment is meant to bring these two things together, the two ideas together.
Speaker A:The idea are standards and the idea that there are impressions.
Speaker A:And on that it's really fascinating because I've got a small group of people who may want to compete or judge competitions.
Speaker A:Barista competitions here in Rochester.
Speaker C:Who.
Speaker A:So we're all kind of re familiarizing ourselves with competition format.
Speaker A:The barista competitions have already incorporated impression scores.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they have the objective 0 to 6 scores and then they have these impression scores that are 0 to 3.
Speaker A:And I'm like that's awesome.
Speaker A:Again, I love sensory science.
Speaker A:I love that we're sort of respecting where the research is at.
Speaker A:But that's like.
Speaker A:I've seen some serious bias at barista competitions when everything was supposedly objective.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:I'm really uncomfortable with there being any impression scores on a sensory judges score sheet because like I, you know, it's, it's, it's by company name, it's by the baristas who have made a name for themselves.
Speaker A:Like these people just score higher because they do like it just.
Speaker A:And I've seen it.
Speaker A:Like I've literally witnessed it.
Speaker A:So now we're just systematizing that.
Speaker B:Well, I mean you could go blind.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Why not?
Speaker A:Like, well but then like, like how, how is, how would a barista present.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like presentation matters.
Speaker A:Like presentation matters in our cafes and so it should matter in our competitions, I think.
Speaker A:But I mean.
Speaker B:But it depends on what the competition is.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:And I mean I'm specifically talking about like the barista championship.
Speaker A:So like I would have to look at like brewers cup or Coffee and good spirits or Chevy ever, like, whatever.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker A:To see, like if they're the same.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that, you know, because that one is so presentation based.
Speaker C:And how do you discuss.
Speaker C:How do you.
Speaker C:How do you tell people what they're going to taste?
Speaker C:And that.
Speaker C:That feels very, very sommelier.
Speaker C:Like, right where you're treating your guest.
Speaker C:You're telling them how they're gonna.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Experience something.
Speaker C:They should believe you based on your experience.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker C:Speaking of experience, I'm gonna pivot over and tell you about the sources of all the coffee we talked about earlier.
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:Since I have found it.
Speaker C:So this is four different sourced coffees, all Colombian.
Speaker C:So all Colombian coffees.
Speaker C:So this is 40% from a producer.
Speaker C:Producer Julio Madrid.
Speaker C:They called it Coconut Islands.
Speaker C:20% Carlos Plaza's cinnamon pink bourbon.
Speaker C:25 Forest Coffee Marlin Lot 5, 5, 3 7% lychee fermented Hyro Arcila.
Speaker C:And it's a wild, like, that's a wild group of things.
Speaker A:It's a four bean blend.
Speaker C:Four bean blend.
Speaker A:And one of those did say cinnamon right in it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Like cinnamon Pink bourbon.
Speaker A:Cinnamon co ferment.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is that.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker B:Is that what it is?
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker C:And that's what I'm really impressed with is I'm not sure they co fermented with almost any of the things that are listed on there.
Speaker C:Maybe there was one or two.
Speaker A:Cinnamon.
Speaker C:And the fact that it still turned out that clear.
Speaker A:That's cool.
Speaker C:Is.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:They don't list all of the co ferments or anything like that.
Speaker C:But if they didn't with some of those things, I'm like, I'm wildly impressed.
Speaker C:That's with what they accomplished.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you wonder how they did it then.
Speaker A:Was it.
Speaker A:Was it like it came out this way?
Speaker A:So we called it this.
Speaker B:That's what I.
Speaker B:That's what my impression of all of this has been.
Speaker A:What a great way to market this really specific.
Speaker B:I mean, talk about our.
Speaker B:Our taste, our cue tasters and our sommeliers here.
Speaker B:Like, that was my impression of all of this, is they're gonna throw a bunch of stuff in a pot essentially.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then they're gonna taste it.
Speaker B:And somebody pulled it out and was like, this is good.
Speaker B:Okay, let's see what this does now.
Speaker B:There's obviously way more thought behind it than that.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:But like, who goes into a coffee preparation thinking, you know, let's try and pull out some coconut cream and let's put some key lime on that and, oh, yeah, passion fruit.
Speaker B:Let's make it taste like passion fruit also.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, like, how do you put all those things together there purposefully that, like that intentionally?
Speaker B:I can't, I can't imagine you could.
Speaker A:I genuinely wonder.
Speaker A:I, I.
Speaker A:And I'm just thinking now about, like a cold brew experiment I was doing today.
Speaker A:And I was, I did a blend.
Speaker A:I actually did a blend for Angela.
Speaker A:She's doing some fermentation festival.
Speaker A:I don't know exactly what it is, but she wanted to do take cold brew.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker A:And so we did this blend and I was like, now I'm gonna try it.
Speaker A:You know, I want to do my own experiment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was pulling it at 22 hours, 23 hours, 24 hours, 25 hours.
Speaker A:And at 25 hours, not kidding you, this blend tasted like an Arnold Palmer.
Speaker A:So I pulled the bag.
Speaker A:I was like, this is so cool.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that's.
Speaker A:It might work that way more that way where you just, like, you were blending these, these fun things you had around and, and you arrived at this.
Speaker A:Oh, this, this particular blend tastes like a painkiller.
Speaker A:So, like, let's market it that way.
Speaker A:That's really.
Speaker A:That, that actually makes a lot more sense to me.
Speaker A:So just in light of, you know.
Speaker B:My own experience, here's, here's my question, though.
Speaker B:So if we're looking at this, it says 7% Ario Achilla.
Speaker B:Is that how we decided?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:And then it says Dash Lychee.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So are we understanding that Hario Achilla is a coffee lot?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:So I'm doing, I did a couple searches.
Speaker C:It looks like that's, that's the producer.
Speaker B:And then the lychee is the actual lychee fruit that they co fermented.
Speaker C:Great question.
Speaker A:That seems likely.
Speaker A:I don't know why you would listen.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Although.
Speaker B:So here's why.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Here's the other thing.
Speaker B:So we go up one, and it's the 25 Forest Coffee.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:And then that says Dash.
Speaker B:Is it marlin?
Speaker B:My old eyes.
Speaker B:Lot 553.
Speaker B:What the heck is Marlin?
Speaker B:Lot 553 in relation to lychee?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I'm trying to search.
Speaker C:And like, oh, that doesn't show up anywhere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's like.
Speaker C:And that's the thing that's.
Speaker C:There is an opaqueness.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And, you know, tying back to what we were talking about, if you're not, you know, regularly getting green coffee from all these sources, roasting and tasting it, how do you know what anything tastes like?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Is having somebody who knows what they're doing?
Speaker C:Taste it and tell you what you might expect.
Speaker C:You might not get everything out of that when you roast it, but having somebody telling you that you're going to get something, then you can believe that.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, we just, we just looked at all these things.
Speaker C:Those descriptions have words that we understand, certainly words we know, but we don't know the processes.
Speaker A:We don't go together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:We don't know where it was.
Speaker C:We don't know the rest of the process.
Speaker C:Like, hey, the co ferment.
Speaker C:But what else was going on?
Speaker C:How else did you do this?
Speaker C:Where did you do.
Speaker B:How long was the co ferment?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:We don't know any of those details.
Speaker C:And I'm sure we probably could figure it out through the background of what Wade has in catalogs, other sources somewhere.
Speaker B:My new favorite thing was there an anoxic pillow in there.
Speaker C:But I can't find it online.
Speaker C:Some of these things quickly.
Speaker C:So even for, even for this, like, hey, I won't be able to find out all this information.
Speaker C:I just have to enjoy it in the moment.
Speaker C:And then if I ever see one of those names again, I'm like, oh, I liked something in that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And Right.
Speaker B:And honestly, when I come across something like this, my, my thoughts are less on the specifics of the copies that go into this and all the processes.
Speaker B:My thoughts are, this is really good.
Speaker B:These guys know exactly what they're doing.
Speaker B:You know, it's that expertise in their production.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so what they've done is instill faith in me that I should go buy something else because it's going to be worth the cash.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Ooh.
Speaker C:I found the hyrule arsila.
Speaker C:And that is.
Speaker C:They call it honey plus process.
Speaker C:So it's wine yeast and lychee co.
Speaker B:Fermentation wine yeast as well.
Speaker A:Honey plus, it's a subscription based process.
Speaker C:Pay us $5 a month.
Speaker B:Is there a honey mine?
Speaker A:And we will honey process a coffee for you.
Speaker B:Where did you find that?
Speaker B:Just out of curiosity.
Speaker C:I'm just searching.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:Like, what was the site that pulled up?
Speaker C:I was actually on xbloom's website.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:For their, like their little not, you know, not pod pods.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it had some details and maybe that was the place I was finding it and like just doing searches.
Speaker C:It's so weird where information is nowadays.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And sometimes I like doing my own research and sometimes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Let's just, let's just believe that they created something for me.
Speaker A:And it's even Weirder than you might think.
Speaker A:Because, like, I was thinking about.
Speaker A:Okay, so future Q graders, one of the places a lot of them can work is at importers.
Speaker A:Now, there's a definite cap on those jobs, but you would be astonished how many times I've called or written to an importer for information about a coffee.
Speaker A:They're like, oh, well, I got to track that down.
Speaker A:So, like, even, Even the importers don't know, you know, like, they have to go find someone.
Speaker A:Like, who'd we buy this from?
Speaker A:And who's in country, who's working on this?
Speaker A:And can we put this person in contact with the person asking the question?
Speaker A:So, like, you're like, the, the insight that information lives in weird places is.
Speaker A:Is absolutely accurate.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, it's like, if I were to.
Speaker A:If I were to even figure out who brought this cop those coffees you're talking about in.
Speaker A:On a container, I might not have been able to use that source to find the information you just found.
Speaker A:Yeah, like, and.
Speaker A:And whoever's making those decisions, like, what to put on the Internet, like, it does seem like it's becoming much more liberal with.
Speaker A:This is the source.
Speaker A:This is what we do with it.
Speaker A:This is what it's called.
Speaker A:It's called honey Plus.
Speaker A:We made that up.
Speaker A:Like, and it's.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:What was it, like chamomile and lychee?
Speaker A:Was that what it.
Speaker C:Or they used wine yeast.
Speaker A:Wine yeast.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And lychee.
Speaker A:Like, you know, that stuff.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's not super.
Speaker A:It's not super transparent and easy to find all the time.
Speaker A:I think that's only going to get harder if the queue is not as active anymore.
Speaker A:So it's my two cents.
Speaker B:Wow, that sounds perfect.
Speaker C:We came full circle on this, didn't we?
Speaker B:I was gonna say right at 49.
Speaker A:We didn't even.
Speaker A:We didn't even mention tariffs.
Speaker C:Now.
Speaker C:They'll be gone tomorrow.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker C:Hey, you know what we're going to do?
Speaker A:I have a timeline of tariffs and how they've impacted my life.
Speaker B:I thought we weren't getting political on this.
Speaker C:You know what?
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:They're going to go away.
Speaker C:We're going to make the best deals, and we're going to bring coffee production back to the US Again like it's always been.
Speaker A:Okay, hold on, hold on.
Speaker A:Because this is really funny.
Speaker A:There was.
Speaker A:I wanted to see if you guys had heard about this one.
Speaker A:Okay, so first of all, there is now a Congressional Coffee Caucus.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:That exists?
Speaker C:That's pretty cool.
Speaker A:That Exists in the America.
Speaker A:American Congress.
Speaker B:I want to go now.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:A representative.
Speaker A:A Democratic representative from Hawaii, obviously.
Speaker C:Sure, that makes sense.
Speaker A:And a Republican representative from South Carolina.
Speaker A:Cause why the hell not?
Speaker A:I have no idea what that dude's deal is.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker A:They were.
Speaker A:They're trying to essentially advocate for the coffee industry in America.
Speaker A:And I can't find the quote.
Speaker A:I will find it and we will find a.
Speaker A:Find a way to get it out there.
Speaker A:Yeah, but there was an actual United States congressman who said, look at all these fields of soybeans.
Speaker A:Why can't we plant coffee there?
Speaker A:No, I mean, you look at them, they basically look the same.
Speaker A:That's what he said.
Speaker A:This is what he said.
Speaker A:I wish I was making this up, but.
Speaker A:And I gotta find it.
Speaker A:But if you Google Congressman soybeans coffee, all that comes up is this new coffee Congressional Coffee Caucus.
Speaker A:So like, I gotta dig a little deeper.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Why can't we just.
Speaker A:All the soybean fields.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:Get rid of soybeans, one of our major exports to China.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's going to be the best coffee.
Speaker C:I was going to be the best producer of coffee in the world.
Speaker C:How much elevation?
Speaker A:I'll tell you.
Speaker C:0.
Speaker C:0 elevation.
Speaker A:That's where I grew up.
Speaker A:They like coffee there in Iowa.
Speaker A:I'll just.
Speaker A:I'm just going to put that out there.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:We don't want to put coffee in their hands.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker C:All right, let's close out.
Speaker C:We can go on forever.
Speaker A:We really could.
Speaker C:Wade.
Speaker C:Where can people buy some Aporia coffee?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So check out AM FM down at 45 Euclid street or go to aporiacoffee.com.
Speaker A:i have some super fun things coming this week.
Speaker A:They're gonna be in the green.
Speaker A:Will be in this week.
Speaker A:Releasing really soon.
Speaker A:A double ferment Pacamura.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I've got my first pink bourbon.
Speaker A:I've got a pocus honey process and a natural guat.
Speaker A:So like just some fun cool stuff that I'm really excited for.
Speaker A:For the summer.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna cold brew it all.
Speaker A:That's why I'm doing cold brew experiments.
Speaker A:Also an anaerobic Honduras.
Speaker A:Super exciting stuff.
Speaker A:So yeah, check out Aporia.
Speaker A:Pori is going to be having some fun.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:Don't let me forget to talk to you gentlemen about an event I want to throw end of July.
Speaker C:Ah, very exciting.
Speaker A:I'm already in out at the warehouse and maybe like some live podcasting there.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:Ready for it?
Speaker A:I think we could have some fun moderating a panel there, so be on the lookout for that too.
Speaker A:It's coming.
Speaker C:That'll be great.
Speaker A:Exactly when, but it's coming.
Speaker C:Aaron, you got any place you want.
Speaker B:People to find you if you're bored and you want to see some photography?
Speaker B:AaronPascucci.com is getting revamped.
Speaker B:It's in working stages, but it's there.
Speaker B:So it's going to be hoping to pull some stuff together now.
Speaker B:Nice taking that time and just throwing some things on.
Speaker B:So awesome.
Speaker B:Yeah, podcasts will start going up there at some point and things like that.
Speaker C:So you can find it at aaronpascucci.com Biz, coffee, wherever you find your websites.
Speaker B:I'm a full stack developer.
Speaker C:And speaking of websites, you can also go to lunchadore.com to check out all of the shows on the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker C:Definitely check out one of our newest shows nights and weekends from the team from the sound.
Speaker C:They just had an interview with the curator from the Lilac Festival, Dave Drago, who helps pick all the bands for that and I think coming out, depending on when this comes out, they had an interview with a band coming to Rochester, the Dandy Warhols that we did a remote interview with and had a really good time, had a good conversation with Peter from the band.
Speaker C:So they're doing some really cool stuff over there.
Speaker C:Check it out wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker C:And we'll be back back next time with more dialed in.
Speaker C:This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
