Cult Leaders, community, and A Grey Nato
Cult Leader Coffee - Astral Projection
https://player.captivate.fm/episode/15869f9d-341b-4dbd-8bfa-1139e09b8893/
Drinking Ditta Artigianale
https://player.captivate.fm/episode/3e932768-f84c-4343-820c-603cc02a383b/
- Ditta Artigianale Specialty Coffee Roasters
- Coffee & BeerBlack Blood of the Earth
- Death Wish Coffee Is Suing Death Before Decaf Coffee | Sprudge Coffee
- Hodinkee Timex Limited Editions
- The Grey Nato
- Cult Leader Coffee
Mentioned in this episode:
Behind the Studio Door
Behind the Studio Door, hosted by Molly Darling and Christian Rivera, takes listeners on a captivating exploration of artists and their creative processes. Through deep and meaningful conversations, they uncover the stories and experiences that shape the outward expression of their work. https://behind-the-studio-door.captivate.fm/
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome up to the Level up podcast.
Speaker B:I'm Aaron Pascucci, your host today, and we're here with Chris Lindstrom, our producer.
Speaker A:How's it going today, man?
Speaker B:And we've got Evan Johnson.
Speaker B:It is Johnson, right?
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:I realized that I forgot that halfway through my sentence there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:America's second most common last name.
Speaker C:So if you're ever in doubt, just guess the last name Johnson, and you'll probably be okay.
Speaker A:I was going to say.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Right out of Blazing Saddles, man.
Speaker A:Every single person was last named Johnson.
Speaker C:And that's right.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker A:A fine film.
Speaker B:So before.
Speaker B:So before we get really rolling into here, I had a little bit of an update.
Speaker B:I do a lot of enthusiast reading on coffee and was thinking about the podcast here, and I don't know if we ever kind of talked about what Level up was going to be and, you know, like a mission statement or something.
Speaker B:And so thinking about our podcast and having Evan on here, I was like, what are we doing with this podcast?
Speaker A:That's a great thing to know, isn't it?
Speaker B:You know, like, we show up and we make these episodes, but, like, what is.
Speaker B:What is LevelUp more than just a podcast there?
Speaker B:So came across a statement that I thought, like, really summarized what we were doing.
Speaker B:We tend to be dominated really by pulling different people in and coffee and just talking about their experience more than anything else.
Speaker B:We kind of originally had thought that we might be doing, like, news and talking about super deep issues, which we do, but that's not been the main theme here.
Speaker B:And really, if you go back to like episode one or two, we had a bunch of people who started this podcast and now it's really me, Wade and Chris here.
Speaker B:And our original statement was we were going to do a bunch on education.
Speaker B:You remember us talking about that back in the day?
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker B:And this was when Perfect Daily Grind had announced a education platform and Spruge came out with one.
Speaker B:And I've got my master's degree in instructional design.
Speaker B:And so that was kind of where we started.
Speaker B:And then it kind of just fell apart for a bit.
Speaker B:And then there was a conversation where Wade was like, hey, let's do something again a year later.
Speaker B:So anyway, so everything good starts is.
Speaker A:Somebody gets an itch and they say, let's do something.
Speaker A:God, yeah.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:So anyway, wanted to kind of bring this around to what you can kind of expect.
Speaker B:We're going to still do a bunch of in depth stuff when appropriate and talking about other things, but this was the statement I found in Standart magazine and I changed it just a little bit.
Speaker B:We here, here at LevelUp are going to be viewing coffee as a starting point.
Speaker B:It's a commonality and an inspiring means of exploring the larger and broader set of topics there we can bring together so many people and interests and in the magazine it goes a lot farther.
Speaker B:And it's the whole editor's note in the last issue.
Speaker B:But I felt like when I read that it was like perfect for what we were doing and, and really fit perfectly with what Evan was doing and bringing him in randomly like this.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Fortuitous circumstances.
Speaker C:I'm glad I could be of assistance.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, and this is really cool.
Speaker B:So you know, I feel like now we can get jump in here.
Speaker B:Chris, how you been?
Speaker A:Oh, things are good, man.
Speaker A:I'm back to work after working for four business days over the last five plus weeks of the year, which was really odd and disconcerting from somebody who has no chill with everything I do.
Speaker A:So we still got to Chicago, we got to Flushing in Queens and setting up more video here in the studio.
Speaker A:But I'm okay.
Speaker A:How are you doing, man?
Speaker B:It was good.
Speaker B:I'm a teacher if you kind of haven't picked that up.
Speaker B:And I'm a high school teacher.
Speaker B:So we had Christmas break and I had almost two weeks off which is not usual for Christmas break.
Speaker B:So that was pretty awesome.
Speaker B:And so come up a little bit later.
Speaker B:But we're planning a trip to Italy for spring break.
Speaker B:And Chris, guess where is on our list.
Speaker A:Are you going to Florence where Diet Artignale is?
Speaker B:How did you know?
Speaker A:We talked about it on a prior episode.
Speaker A:Is one of the few specialty coffee shops in Italy.
Speaker A:When I went and it was in, in Florence and it was just, just like a respite from, you know, the day to day coffee of Italy.
Speaker A:Which is good.
Speaker A:But it's more the culture of coffee than it is the amazing roasting or specific origin of the coffee.
Speaker A:It's more like the style of coffee.
Speaker A:Go to the corner shop, you get, get a sparkling water and espresso for like €2.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's amazing, but it's not amazing coffee.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Evan, tell us how you been, what's going on and yeah, tell us a little bit about who you are.
Speaker B:You know that was kind of a poor intro here and.
Speaker B:But that's kind of the way we roll a little bit.
Speaker C:I'm here for it.
Speaker C:My name is Evan Johnson.
Speaker C:As you correctly surmised, my primary day to day work is A marketing agency based in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker C:We do all sorts of stuff for all sorts of businesses.
Speaker C:But about a year ago, I decided, hey, we can do all the design work.
Speaker C:We know how to do marketing, and we all really like coffee, so why don't we start a coffee brand?
Speaker C:Took about a year to get that into effect.
Speaker C:It's been live since October 31st.
Speaker C:And when you hear the name and see all of the art and stuff, you'll understand why we launched on that date.
Speaker C:But, yeah, we've been having a great time with that and more immediately today.
Speaker C:Uh, speaking of working during break, we spent all break working on launching a custom home builder website.
Speaker C:Uh, so we went out for drinks today, and I'm feeling pretty good.
Speaker B:Yeah, would.
Speaker B:It wouldn't be the first time.
Speaker A:Th.
Speaker A:Those are wildly divergent statements to make.
Speaker A:Like, you know what we had.
Speaker A:I have a day job.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, we'll start a coffee brand.
Speaker A:Like, oh, cool.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And then like, oh, we're also going to do custom home building.
Speaker C:Well, so I own a marketing agency.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I have clients from custom home building to Icelandic frozen fish, private schools on the east coast and really runs the gamut traffic protection.
Speaker C:Didn't think they needed marketing, but they do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I actually just interviewed somebody here in Rochester with our kind of.
Speaker A:Our transportation advocacy organization, Reconnect Rochester.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And they're talking about doing.
Speaker A:Doing some road diets and making some roads actually safer.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker A:It is a.
Speaker A:It's a big thing because advocacy is not.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker A:It's not simple.
Speaker C:This is more the people standing in the road with the slow or stop signs.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:But, you know, it's all connected.
Speaker C:It's all.
Speaker C:It's all part of it.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:So we did take a look at this.
Speaker B:So we should talk about a little bit about how Evan and I connected, because that's also really the core of what we're doing here.
Speaker B:There's another podcast.
Speaker B:We mentioned it last time.
Speaker B:It's called the Gray NATO.
Speaker B:And also I wanted to read their statement because I.
Speaker B:I think they're really a pinnacle of, like, the way a good podcast goes, where, of course, they don't have an about statement on their page.
Speaker A:Well, while you're looking that up, I.
Speaker A:As soon as you mentioned Allentown, the first thing I thought of was mini golf.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker A:I know that's a weird thing to say.
Speaker A:I follow you.
Speaker A:I follow a YouTube channel where they basically, they travel the whole country going to mini golf places and that's their full time job.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker C:Amazing.
Speaker A:Which like it's a couple no notes.
Speaker A:That's phenomenal.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So within an hour and a half drive, there's two of the best miniature golf courses in the country from Allentown.
Speaker A:So there's one in just outside of Lancaster called Village Greens and there's one just north of Reading called Shells Restaurant.
Speaker A:Dairy Swirl and mini golf, of course.
Speaker C:It'S called that, but yeah.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:I had no idea.
Speaker A:They're some of the coolest golf courses that mini golf courses I've ever seen.
Speaker A:The Village Greens ones.
Speaker A:I'm debating driving from Rochester, staying in Lancaster just to go to that.
Speaker C:So Lancaster is actually a great city.
Speaker C:So Allentown is the third largest city in Pennsylvania.
Speaker C:Lancaster's somewhere below us.
Speaker C:Lancaster is a great city.
Speaker C:Awesome breweries, great arts and cultural scene.
Speaker C:You can go to the Hershey factory, which is not far from there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:You can do the Turkey Hill ice cream tour.
Speaker C:You can also go to the National Watch and Clock Museum, which is where I went for my bachelor party.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Now that's a nerd.
Speaker A:That's a nerd bachelor party right there.
Speaker C:Which everybody was super hungover.
Speaker C:It was a rough time.
Speaker A:Which ties back to what Aaron was mentioning before.
Speaker B:So is that also where Lake Chautauqua is or is that a different area of Lancaster?
Speaker C:I don't know Lake Chautauqua or.
Speaker C:You're mispronouncing it.
Speaker A:I think Chautauqua is in the bottom right of New York State near Erie.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:I knew it was near us at all.
Speaker B:Yeah, I knew it was close to Pennsylvania.
Speaker B:I couldn't remember where.
Speaker B:So I was hoping it was close to there so I could go visit my, my old grandparents lake house, you know, and then go to like mini golfing.
Speaker B:By the way, Chris, if you end up making that trip and it's appropriate.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm making that trip.
Speaker B:Let me know because I'm a huge mini golf fan.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm going to send you this channel.
Speaker A:It's awesome.
Speaker B:I tried to take my kids to our local mini golf course and it was just a disaster.
Speaker B:My daughter, who's 9, I thought would be kind of into it and she ended up sitting down at like hole two and just decided, I'm not moving.
Speaker B:And it wasn't like along the side of it.
Speaker B:It was right in the middle of the little green.
Speaker C:Well, you want to get them used to it there.
Speaker C:And then once they're used to it, you don't want them embarrassing you at one of the world class ones.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:You take them to the world class when once they're.
Speaker C:They got their shit together.
Speaker A:Oh, of course.
Speaker A:And that's, that's a pretty good.
Speaker A:That's a pretty good percentage anyways.
Speaker A:You got like 1.5 holes out of 18 like that.
Speaker A:That's pretty good.
Speaker A:It's almost 10%.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, you know, back to our topic here, by the way.
Speaker B:I'm going to be doing a better job of wrangling in this crew of people than I did the last time I was, you know, in charge.
Speaker B:So Evan and I met through the Slack channel, which you get access to when you support this other podcast, the Gray NATO.
Speaker B:And related to his bachelor party, the Gray NATO is a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving gear, and most certainly watches.
Speaker B:Hosts Jason Heaton and James Stacy break down their love of adventure, their addiction to watches, and the many forms both can take.
Speaker B:We mentioned last time Hodinkee and I don't think that we talked about any other of the publication areas, but yeah, so I became a supporter, I think it was last year and got on the slack.
Speaker B:There's a whole bunch of, you know, you talk about nerdery on the Gray NATO slack.
Speaker B:There's every neutery you can get.
Speaker B:Including coffee.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:And there's a coffee channel.
Speaker C:There's a, there's a new maker channel.
Speaker B:Oh, fun.
Speaker C:And then there's a diving driving gear.
Speaker C:Most certainly watches adventure aviation.
Speaker C:That's not a busy one, but I think I'm pretty sure everybody in that channel owns their own plane.
Speaker B:I was gonna say, Are we getting.
Speaker C:It's a wild place.
Speaker A:I was gonna say, as you do, yes.
Speaker C:As you do, yes.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, when you're into watches, you're talking about everybody who is got a Casio from their childhood to, you know, the Audemars, Piagets and the, you know, the Nautiluses and things like that that I'll never own, but we can appreciate from afar.
Speaker C:Never say never.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:Never say never.
Speaker B:I did have a Rolex drop in my, my lap once.
Speaker B:Here's a cool story for you.
Speaker B:I grew up with Ben.
Speaker B:Ben Clymer.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, that's wild.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is a little wild to see where he ended up.
Speaker B:And then he was doing one of the first pop ups in San Francisco.
Speaker B:So I went to visit my high school friend and he was doing this little blog and they just mentioned something and he was like, you know, this watch is kind of what you're looking for.
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, it really is.
Speaker B:And he goes, how about I give you a little bit of a discount?
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:I looked at my wife at the time, was like, can I drop a couple grand on this right now?
Speaker B:And I walked out with a vintage Rolex.
Speaker C:That's not bad.
Speaker C:That's not a bad way to do it if you're going to do it.
Speaker B:So, Evan, I'm assuming you have something on your wrist right now.
Speaker C:I do.
Speaker C:I have a double signed titanium spring drive grand Seiko diver, which if people don't know what that is, they'll hear the word Seiko and be like, oh, a watch.
Speaker C:If people know what that is, they'll be like, oh, really?
Speaker B:A really nice watch.
Speaker C:It's not a Rolex, but it's fun.
Speaker B:I mean, it's a little close.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a little close.
Speaker C:It looks like their cousins.
Speaker B:Yeah, Yeah, I noticed it looks like the Omega that just came out.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The James Bond brown one there.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:Well, that's just because of the.
Speaker C:The NATO that I have it on.
Speaker C:But, yeah, it's a.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:I love this thing.
Speaker C:I like titanium.
Speaker C:It's nice and light.
Speaker C:Doesn't bother me.
Speaker A:Well, especially with something that.
Speaker A:It does tend to be bulky and sometimes heavy, especially if you have large dials and things.
Speaker A:Like, it's pretty sizable.
Speaker C:If this was in steel, it would be way too heavy for me to wear comfortably.
Speaker C:Like, I have a.
Speaker C:I also have a Marine Master right next to me.
Speaker C:It's in steel.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I don't wear this a lot because it's too heavy.
Speaker B:And that was.
Speaker B:I was gonna say.
Speaker B:And that was ultimately where I went with my Rolex is it was a day date, manual wind.
Speaker B:And yeah, your face says it all.
Speaker B:So, you know, I wouldn't wear it for like a day or two.
Speaker B:And then it was like 76 wines to get it in the appropriate spot.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, because it was.
Speaker C:It was manual set both day and date.
Speaker C: So it was like a: Speaker B:It might have been.
Speaker B:My references are very poor.
Speaker C:Yellow gold.
Speaker B:It was white.
Speaker B:I think it was stainless steel.
Speaker B:And it had a blue face.
Speaker C:So a datejust.
Speaker B:Possibly, but it was dates.
Speaker C:There's only like five of them in steel.
Speaker C:Sorry, I'm being a real nerd right now.
Speaker B:No, I.
Speaker B:I'm an.
Speaker B:I'm an enthusiast.
Speaker B:I'm not a watch nerd.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker C:If you had a steel day date, there's like, you.
Speaker C:You had a very, very special watch.
Speaker B:I hope I didn't But I'm assuming I only paid single digit grand for it, you know, so it was not like a 10 or $15, 10 or $15,000 watch, like I'm assuming those are.
Speaker B:Or maybe more.
Speaker C:The steel ones are.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C: ably had like a, like a what,: Speaker C:Those are awesome.
Speaker C:Yeah, those are great watches.
Speaker B:And actually the.
Speaker B:I remember now the only thing on the dial said precision, so.
Speaker C:Oh, interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was.
Speaker C:So it might have been like a, like a.
Speaker C:Just a Rolex date, something like that.
Speaker C:We don't have to get into this.
Speaker C:Ignore me, Ignore me.
Speaker A:What I'm interested in.
Speaker A:So as the non watch person here, like I've always appreciated them but like I have a buddy who.
Speaker A:Buddy who collects and he's bought some pieces for collecting and things like that.
Speaker A:And Aaron and I have a mutual friend, David Lane, who creates leather watch bands out of Rochester.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker A:He does, he sells all over the place.
Speaker B:You say you've seen his watch straps because he does sell to Hodinkee.
Speaker A:Designer David Lane.
Speaker C:Yeah, I, yeah, I know who you're talking about.
Speaker A:And he's one of our buddies in town and like, you know, seeing all the pieces, it's amazing.
Speaker A:But it's not something I ever got into.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Question I wanted to ask before we go into coffee because we've gone far afield is what is, what is it about watches that grabbed you that made you want to really nerd out about it?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:I got into watches probably about 20 years ago when I was, you know, mid teens, late teens.
Speaker C:I always liked just little heavy metal, mechanical things.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Whether that's watches or just little gadgets or like light meters or whatever, stuff like that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I started getting into watches.
Speaker C:I got into Seikos.
Speaker C:I started, you know, grown through that.
Speaker C:Unfortunately my, my tastes always exceeded my budget, especially during the like the like vintage Rolex craze, which was like, you know, the height a couple years ago.
Speaker C:And I just, there's always something new to learn and it's not even just about the, the academia of it.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like I like wearing watches.
Speaker C:I like, you know that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's just because I can sit at a meeting or a bar and know, like, hey, I have a couple thousand bucks on my wrist.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker C:You know, and I can be shallow and that's what can make me feel good.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But I can also nerd out and say, oh well, if it has this crown on it, it's this version.
Speaker C:If it has this, it's that it's Just there's always something.
Speaker A:Well, I think there's also.
Speaker A:I like, I like that statement though, before, where, yeah, it is kind of about the dollar value, but it's also like you feel confident wearing it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You know, and there's something to be said for finding what you're comfortable with, that you feel like, oh, I feel like a better version of myself when I'm wearing something.
Speaker B:That's what I was going to say is, you know, when I got my first really expensive watch, it was one of those things now where I look down at it, you know, like you said in a meeting or at a time, like when you're in the car or something.
Speaker B:And at least for me, it's one of those things.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's that feeling.
Speaker B:But it's also like, I'm worthy of this, you know, like, I earned this.
Speaker B:I earned this.
Speaker B:Or I, you know, as a person, I've done enough that I deserve to have this little piece of joy on my wrist.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the only thing I can link it to is like, you know, like, girls will get these, like, nice engagement rings and things.
Speaker B:And that's the.
Speaker B:That's the feeling I.
Speaker B:I can only assume they have when they look down and see that also.
Speaker C:Well, or whether it's engagement ring or, you know, like a Van Cleef bracelet or something from Cartier or whatever.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:Oh, this makes me feel good.
Speaker B:And I'm not going to lie.
Speaker B:I also get the same bit with coffee.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of us in.
Speaker A:Our circle, that pivot right there, that.
Speaker C:Was like Aaron Good Segway.
Speaker A:That was really nice.
Speaker A:Look at you being a professional.
Speaker B:I love calling out segues, but look.
Speaker C:At us not being professional.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Was.
Speaker B:But it's like we, we're not buying the $10 bag of coffee at, you know, the grocery store or whatever.
Speaker B:It's not the 8 o'clock roast that I used to drink or.
Speaker B:What's that?
Speaker B:Chock Full of Nuts was the one that came to mind.
Speaker C:Makes way more money than I do and still drinks Chock Full of Nuts because it's not the thing that he cares about.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:He also wears a Timex.
Speaker B:Is it a Marlin or a cool Timex?
Speaker C:Now, weirdly enough, I actually have a duplicate of it because I picked it up at Super Sale.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's the Houdinki Timex.
Speaker B:Oh, nice.
Speaker B:That was so cool.
Speaker B:And those were super affordable.
Speaker B:It was really neat to see that.
Speaker C:When it was on sale for like 80 bucks.
Speaker A:And it looks Nice.
Speaker A:It's a, it's a.
Speaker A:It's a good looking classic, classy watch.
Speaker B:Was.
Speaker C:It works.
Speaker C:It's fine with him.
Speaker C:It replaced his weekender that it was so old that he was brushing his daughter's hair and the crown ripped out in her hair.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Was it, was it Timex that had the anniversary watch that was selling for like a dollar?
Speaker B:A dollar?
Speaker B:I was going to say it was a dollar, and I was like, no, it couldn't be a dollar.
Speaker C:It was, it was.
Speaker B:Do you know anyone that got one of those?
Speaker C:I don't, I don't.
Speaker C:But I think there is a very limited number of them.
Speaker C:And for people that might not get why they're selling for a dollar, they were going back to the price that they were selling watches at, you know, at the date of their anniversary, which at the time you could get a watch from Timex for a dollar.
Speaker C:And it was a great watch.
Speaker C:It worked and ran.
Speaker C:And really when it stopped running and like, I've talked to my mom about this, you didn't get it serviced.
Speaker C:You just went down to the drugstore and bought a new Timex.
Speaker C:Right, you know?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And for anybody guessing right now, it is selling for over a hundred on ebay.
Speaker C:That's a pretty good.
Speaker C:That's a pretty good multiple.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know.
Speaker B:I was, I told my wife about it.
Speaker B:She goes, you know what you gotta do?
Speaker B:She goes, you gotta go create an account tonight.
Speaker B:You have to have it open and be there like 40 minutes early.
Speaker B:And she had this whole plan for getting these limited opening things online.
Speaker B:And sure enough, I did that.
Speaker B:I still couldn't get one.
Speaker B:Like, they were sold out.
Speaker B:The second, like, I logged in.
Speaker B:It was ridiculous.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:You were doing your.
Speaker A:You were doing your Taylor Swift tickets dance.
Speaker A:Trying to, trying to manifest it.
Speaker B:That's what she was learning this about, was she wanted to go see Taylor Swift.
Speaker A:I know that that strategy is like, so it's so common now that, like, especially with all the algorithms and, you know, all that nonsense with all the bots trying to steal everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or the incentives to resell everything.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:But I think we're gonna do.
Speaker A:I think we should take a quick break, and then we're gonna dive right into Cult Leader coffee.
Speaker A:We're gonna talk about what we tasted the other day, and we take a break, and we're gonna be right back.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:And we're back.
Speaker B:We've still got Evan Johnson here.
Speaker B:He didn't run away, which is awesome.
Speaker B:And Chris, we can't get rid of that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm excited to talk about coffee.
Speaker A:We had a.
Speaker A:I mean I love to talk about watches and different nerderies because I love the nerdery, but coffee is one of the things that got me into fancy beverage.
Speaker A:That's where Aaron and I met was at Joe Bean Coffee here in Rochester.
Speaker A:Kind of our premier, I'd say, nerdery style specialty coffee shop.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:That's where we met originally.
Speaker A:And last time we were together we tasted.
Speaker A:We tasted the astral projection from Cult Leader Coffee.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was going to say, Evan, before we get into that, tell us a little bit about Cult Leader Coffee.
Speaker B:Tell us how you started it and really what turned you into starting a coffee company, you know, from your other.
Speaker B:Other than being a nerdy about things.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So I was a barista before I started my agency about 11 and a half ish, 12 ish years ago.
Speaker B:And where was it?
Speaker C:I was down in Doylestown.
Speaker C:I won't name names, but it was a.
Speaker C:It was an indie coffee shop down Doylestown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker C:I was living at my mom's house in Emmaus at the time.
Speaker C:So I was commuting about an hour every day to get there.
Speaker C:So I was waking up at like 3:30 in the morning for opening shifts.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was, it was real dumb.
Speaker B:But you loved it at the time.
Speaker C:I enjoyed it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:As like a early 20s dude with, you know, no real obligations, no real costs, as long as I made enough money to cover my, you know, car insurance and gas.
Speaker C:Cool, man.
Speaker C:And then one what July 31, they came in and said, hey, don't stock anything tonight.
Speaker C:We're closing.
Speaker B:Oh no.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I said, what?
Speaker C:And they said, don't come in tomorrow.
Speaker C:We're closed.
Speaker C:I said, oh, okay.
Speaker C:So the next day I decided to start a advertising agency because I was watching a lot of Mad Men at the time as you.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:So I did that and still do that.
Speaker C:It's been about 11 and a half years.
Speaker C:And about two years ago, we're working with a coffee roaster up in the Poconos in Pennsylvania.
Speaker C:They needed branding, they needed package design, they needed advertising, all this stuff.
Speaker C:And if I can say so myself, we did a great job with it.
Speaker C:They loved it.
Speaker C:People love it.
Speaker C:They're still using all of that stuff.
Speaker C:Hopefully, you know, they are after two years.
Speaker B:And will you share who that is or are we not making news?
Speaker C:Rysk Farms starts with an H.
Speaker C:They're from Readers.
Speaker C:Pocono Readers, Penn.
Speaker C:The Poconos.
Speaker C:Really nice guys.
Speaker C:They still we still work with them for labeling and packaging design and everything.
Speaker C:And they are our actual roaster.
Speaker C:So very stuff in house.
Speaker C:We are a marketing agency, and in about a year ago, we were like, hey, we all really like coffee.
Speaker C:You know, I used to be barista and my graphic designer used to be barista.
Speaker C:We have a copywriter.
Speaker C:She drinks coffee all day.
Speaker C:And we decided, why don't we start a coffee brand?
Speaker C:So my initial idea was more space themed and I just.
Speaker C:I couldn't get it going right in my head.
Speaker C:Like, I'm the creative director there.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:I couldn't get it moving.
Speaker C:So I was taking my dog.
Speaker C:This is a very long winded story.
Speaker C:I apologize.
Speaker C:I was taking my dog to daycare one day, as you do, and I was driving through the backwoods in Pennsylvania and I came up with the idea of Cult Leader Coffee.
Speaker C:And so we started working on it and we created all the labels.
Speaker C:We created, you know, the packaging design, we built the website, we wrote all the copy, and in it, we started creating a whole world that this stuff lives inside.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So there's a map of a city and there's cult in that city.
Speaker C:And, you know, it's a.
Speaker C:It's a whole storytelling experience now that we get to have fun with and take advantage of through the lens of coffee and social marketing and websites and newsletters and stuff like that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So somebody else makes awesome coffee, we package it, and we tell a really fun, weird story around it.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's really neat.
Speaker B:One of the.
Speaker B:As soon as you kind of shared this with me, I was super excited because like I said, we.
Speaker B:We love our expensive coffee, we love our brewing stuff.
Speaker B:But, like, getting to bring in people like you who have such a different view of coffee and where it was coming from is really neat to hear.
Speaker B:And so I can't believe I didn't do this.
Speaker B:I just went to your Instagram and.
Speaker C:We need to get some more stuff on there.
Speaker B:But, yeah, but it's put together like marketing and it's beautiful.
Speaker B:And the little cartoons at the top are really cool.
Speaker C:Well, and if you look at the dates for those cartoons, that was our holiday ad campaign showing, you know, hey, listen, order coffee, unpackage it, brew it, while your little monster child unwraps his presence.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:By the way, do you have children or are you just speculating here?
Speaker C:I have a dog and she's great, but it's not really monster children, you know, in this world, like, you know, monsters are real.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And that's.
Speaker C:It's okay.
Speaker C:It's just, it's the guy you work with.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And like, zombies are real.
Speaker C:You just don't go over to that side of town at night, you know, and like, yes, the, the church up on the hill is haunted and has witches.
Speaker C:You're aware of that.
Speaker C:So don't go up there.
Speaker C:You know, it's just.
Speaker C:It's an everyday thing that you live with that's.
Speaker B:This is really cool stuff.
Speaker B:I love.
Speaker C:Oh, good.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:Well, like, I don't know, I'm trying to think of what else I am so nerdy about that you get sucked into the world.
Speaker B:Well, I guess this is.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:I'm a, I'm a nerd about video games.
Speaker B:And I'm not like the gamer who like sits and plays for hours and is online all the time and has a streaming setup.
Speaker B:I seek out like really good immersive games.
Speaker B:And so, you know, similarly, there's a game called Bioshock.
Speaker B:I don't know if you play at all.
Speaker C:I'll tell you, the last video games I played were Half Life two.
Speaker B:Okay, that's a good one.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was gonna say.
Speaker B:But like, similarly, this, this game world has taken on a life of its own and you get pulled into this dystopian cyberpunk type world that is built beneath the sea by this rich guy.
Speaker B:And as you go through the game, the story becomes clearer and clearer as to how you ended up here and what is going on and what happened in the past.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it just sucks you into the point where, like, you just want more.
Speaker B:Like when it ends, you're like, I can't, I can't be done.
Speaker B:Like, I need more of it.
Speaker C:Well, that, that's exactly what we're going for.
Speaker C:And we're, we're working on right now.
Speaker C:It's, it's a work in progress.
Speaker C:You know, client work always comes first.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:But that's something we're, we're shooting for.
Speaker C:And really the way we're.
Speaker C:We're trying to propose it is that or structure it on our end is that each season, quote, season, ends with the release of a new coffee.
Speaker B:Ah, right.
Speaker C:So, you know, if, if.
Speaker C:Well, I can't tell you more stuff, but there's going to be aliens and there's me Aztec gods and there's going to be, you know, all sorts of stuff.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:Yep, this is awesome.
Speaker C:Oh, good.
Speaker B:No, like you said, we're all nerds about things.
Speaker B:And Chris is into art also.
Speaker B:We've got a monthly art event that happens around here.
Speaker B:So you'll find all of your coffee acquaintances and bar acquaintances filtering around to these art installations at various shops and things.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so, like, you know, all of us appreciate a good concept and a good.
Speaker B:When you can tell somebody loves what they're doing and is really into it, you know, that's where Chris and I are coming from.
Speaker B:And I'm sure there's others out there.
Speaker C:So, I mean, it's, it's fun, right?
Speaker C:We spend all our time working on, you know, serious stuff for serious businesses.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Let's have some fun doing some weird stuff that lets us, you know, stretch our legs.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you said you're about a year in we.
Speaker C:Since the concept, yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:But we launched it October 31st.
Speaker B:Oh, it's that new?
Speaker C:It's very new.
Speaker A:How's it been going so far and what are the, you know, what are some of the, you know, some of the ups and downs with, you know, starting it?
Speaker C:So far it's been going pretty good.
Speaker C:I've, I've been happy with it.
Speaker C:We obviously got a big surge of orders.
Speaker C:You know, when it first debuted and when I first put on the TGN Slack, I put it on the shameless Commerce Channel and people went crazy for it.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:And it's, you know, it's kind of leveled off from there.
Speaker C:We get a couple orders a week.
Speaker C:I'm very happy with that right now.
Speaker C:The advantage is it's not its own business.
Speaker C:It doesn't have to be profitable right now.
Speaker C:It can sit there and grow and it'll cost me a little money.
Speaker C:I, you know, have one of my graphic designers do stuff for it.
Speaker C:We get to have fun with it.
Speaker C:It's great.
Speaker C:But people seem to really enjoy it.
Speaker C:They really like the coffee, which, you know, seems self serving to say on a coffee podcast, but.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:Yeah, you know, no.
Speaker B:I mean, I was super excited when I shamelessly was like, hey, do you want to send me a bag?
Speaker B:Like, and then you responded and you were like, yeah, I'll send you a bag.
Speaker B:I was like, this is awesome.
Speaker C:Like, yeah, why not?
Speaker B:I love trying new stuff and you know, and this is the, the thing that I love is that this coffee brought us together.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, we were to like general acquaintances on the, on this watch slack and, you know, we're still, we got to connect.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, and that's where I was gonna, you know, wrap up going with the.
Speaker C:What got you into watches?
Speaker C:And I think it's the same thing for a lot of things.
Speaker C:It's the Community that you find.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And it.
Speaker C:It takes a while to find it.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's.
Speaker C:It's not immediate.
Speaker C:You know, I wandered in the desert with watches for years.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But then you find a community and you get to a point where, yeah, you know, you.
Speaker C:You launch something interesting.
Speaker C:Somebody says, hey, that's cool, and you say, hey, thanks, and then you end up on a podcast with them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:And I got to say, like, that.
Speaker A:And like I said, we had a chance to talk about it.
Speaker A:We actually already published our episode.
Speaker A:Did we publish the one talking about that?
Speaker B:I did.
Speaker B:I got to it.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We got the.
Speaker B:The one you sent me and I kind of requested was the astral projection.
Speaker B:And I was, you know, early on, Papua New guinea was one of the first coffees, like a single origin that I really kind of latched onto and could like, pick out, like, flavors and recognized as being, like, a good source for coffee.
Speaker B:And so I saw it on your website and was like, this is the one, you know?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, so one of the reasons we chose Papua New guinea, talking with our roaster, is that he recommended it.
Speaker C:And, I mean, we all enjoyed it, but he recommended it because it's something people can find approachable, people understand and they're familiar with.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And I think that was like, you know, that was the description we really had of the coffee last time.
Speaker A:I hope you go back and listen to it, because it was.
Speaker A:The interesting thing is, like, hey, it's not roasted the way I typically like my coffee.
Speaker A:Like, I'm a hard coffee nerd.
Speaker A:I like it super light.
Speaker A:I like high acidity.
Speaker A:I like fruity.
Speaker A:This is right down the middle of what people really like, and done in a very good way.
Speaker A:Like, it still has some complications, still has some tasting notes.
Speaker A:It's not just coffee flavor.
Speaker A:Like, it has a little bit of fruit.
Speaker A:It has.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's well made, it's a good coffee, and it's a great intro for people into a little bit.
Speaker A:This is a little bit of a step up from what you're used to.
Speaker A:It's not over roasted.
Speaker A:It's not burned at all.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It's a good coffee for people that just like coffee.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:If you want Colombian dark roast, because that's what you've always drank and you're familiar with it, you can do that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If you want to, you know, explore a little bit, you can do that.
Speaker C:And we're.
Speaker C:We're going to be.
Speaker C:We have plans in the works for light roast.
Speaker C:We're you know, we're exploring stuff, right.
Speaker C:So we can start.
Speaker C:We can start to help open people's worlds as they join the cult.
Speaker B:Well, and this was.
Speaker B:Well, and also I laughed because we were on Slack and I posted that I was drinking your coffee and was excited to be part of it.
Speaker B:And you said, you said something.
Speaker B:You're like, now you're one of us.
Speaker B:And I in my ignorance, assumed that it was like, oh, I'm one of the people who got one of these bags and then realized like, no, he was saying, you're part of the cult now.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker B:And was totally.
Speaker B:When I realized I was like, he's so good.
Speaker C:Well, when you do marketing for a living, but hopefully it comes off as, you know, not facetious.
Speaker C:Well, you know, it's fun, right?
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:Oh, you're part of the cult now.
Speaker C:You're a member.
Speaker C:Like, you got.
Speaker C:You got probably stickers and a coaster in your bag.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:And the coaster said, I'm a cult member.
Speaker B:Well, and.
Speaker B:And you'll be happy to know.
Speaker B:So my teaching position is at a high school and I actually run a maker place.
Speaker C:Oh, cool.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna hit that new channel like Gangbusters and see what I can pick up.
Speaker B:But definitely, I've got these butcher block tables in the room.
Speaker B:It's where all the kids sit.
Speaker B:And I decided that I was gonna live into my punk roots.
Speaker B:And so I'm just covering the tables and stickers.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker B:And so now I've got the cult leader coffee on there.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Oh, it's awesome to have the kids come in.
Speaker B:And they were like, what is this?
Speaker B:What are you doing here?
Speaker C:Send me your address again and I will send you a whole bunch of stickers.
Speaker C:We have some, we have tons of.
Speaker C:So my, My advertising agency, my marketing agency is called Stay Calm Industries.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And we have probably about 15 to 20 different sticker designs that I can send you.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker A:Because that's.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm really, I'm really glad we have to taste it because it is, you know, sometimes you get into a rut of tasting the same thing over and over again.
Speaker C:Everybody's trying to do the same thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Especially when you, when you live at a certain level of nerdery.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You know, there's certain things you don't.
Speaker A:You don't go after anymore.
Speaker A:And for me, it was actually really refreshing to taste like, oh, this is what most people like.
Speaker A:And, oh, I'm actually finding stuff I really enjoy about it.
Speaker C:I feel like you just called my coffee a Timex.
Speaker C:But that's okay.
Speaker A:I mean, kind of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean realistically.
Speaker A:But that, that's, you know, from a, from a high level nerdery perspective.
Speaker A:Like I don't know, some, like there's.
Speaker C:A reason we buy it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:My day to day coffee is, you know, like they have direct relationships with the farm they've gone to visit.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker A:Like that's what I drink every day.
Speaker A:And it's, you know, it's easy to forget that 95% of people that drink coffee.
Speaker C:Oh, it's probably higher than that, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, but like 95 plus percent of people who drink coffee, this is like such a huge step up from what they drink every day.
Speaker A:That, that and I guess it's really hits that mark.
Speaker B:And this is for me what, what got me into higher levels of nerdery was drinking a coffee like this and being like this is way better than, you know, what I was used to brewing and what you can get at most places.
Speaker B:And you know, this would be.
Speaker B:If this was at a coffee shop, this would be the place that I would be like, this is where I'm going to go study in college.
Speaker B:This is where I'm going to go for late night hangouts.
Speaker B:Like there was a coffee shop in California that the coffee was so bad that after a while they had this great outdoor patio.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so I would want to go there and do my grading.
Speaker B:Early on I started bringing my own coffee.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because I just didn't want it.
Speaker B:And they knew me there.
Speaker B:I was irregular enough that like I knew the owner, I knew the baristas, there were a couple other guys that always showed up like most nights.
Speaker B:And so I always knew people also.
Speaker B:Finally the owner came over to me one night and he sat down, he goes, are you bringing your own coffee?
Speaker B:And he's like, he was just like completely shocked.
Speaker B:And I looked at him, I was like, dude, your coffee is so bad.
Speaker B:Like I can't.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:And I looked at my go, you know, and this, this patio is kind of public.
Speaker B:There are all these, you know, these businesses around here that I could walk to.
Speaker B:And he looks at me, goes, dude, I.
Speaker B:I can't have you do that.
Speaker B:Like, this is wrong.
Speaker B:I was like, yeah, I know.
Speaker B:I was like, I know.
Speaker B:Like really?
Speaker A:I know so much more about you now that you did that one.
Speaker A:It makes me so happy and to like, I love the level of just honest disrespect that that was.
Speaker B:Well, and here's the, here's the best Part about the story.
Speaker B:So he came down to me, and he was like, you know, like, I know.
Speaker B:I love you here.
Speaker B:You bring people here, like, this is your spot, and you bring business to me.
Speaker B:But, like, I can't have other people seeing this.
Speaker B:I was like, well, what can we do?
Speaker B:And he goes, well, how about I give you 50% off and you buy a mug every time?
Speaker B:So I would go in and how.
Speaker C:Many mugs do you have?
Speaker B:Well, I wasn't buying the mug.
Speaker B:I was, like, literally, like, renting the mug at the coffee shop.
Speaker B:So I would.
Speaker B:You know, instead of buying a coffee, I would just get the mug.
Speaker B:And that way, I was drinking out of his mugs at the coffee shop.
Speaker B:And, you know, it was.
Speaker B:It was great for a long time, like, when I was there, and every time he would pass by, he'd just give me a little wink, and I'd be like, you know, like a little shake of the head.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But, like, I did, I always brought my friends there, and, you know, we had a great understanding and, you know, just a good guy.
Speaker B:And, you know, he was just like, I'm not changing what I'm doing.
Speaker B:Like, I'm getting enough business.
Speaker B:And I was like, I mean, right.
Speaker C:If it works, right?
Speaker C:Yeah, don't change it for this nerd that, you know, is disrespecting you.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, and that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That kind of ties back to something I say often is, like, when we were actually tasting with one of our friends who's part of this show as well.
Speaker A:He's a coffee roaster, owned his own brand for a while, and he was, you know, working with a potential wholesale customer.
Speaker A:And they asked.
Speaker A:The honest question to me is like, because they were going edging towards closer, really darker roast.
Speaker A:And their question was, do you like this?
Speaker A:I'm like, no, I don't.
Speaker B:Well, but it's not.
Speaker A:It's not about if I like it, because if you're targeting me as your demographic and you're trying to maximize your dollars, that is a terrible way of making money.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Is targeting me.
Speaker B:Well, and the worst part about this was these guys are so nice.
Speaker B:They're so excited about this business.
Speaker A:They're so new, right?
Speaker B:And when they asked us, they had these great smiles on their face.
Speaker B:They're like, these are coffee people.
Speaker B:They're gonna love this.
Speaker B:And both Chris and I were like, this is good, but we're not who you want to sell this for.
Speaker B:Like, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's the thing.
Speaker A:It was roasted well.
Speaker A:Like, our friend's Roasting.
Speaker A:He did a really good job for a.
Speaker A:And like a full few steps darker than what this is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And it was done really well for what it was.
Speaker A:And it's just not what I like.
Speaker A:And they're like, well, but.
Speaker B:And like, this is what we.
Speaker B:And that's what we're going for.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, any it from the marketing agency side of me, the.
Speaker C:The most difficult thing I have to deal with with some clients or get them past this is that unless you are your target audience, which is unlikely.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:It does not matter what you think of X.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Of branding, of advertising of your product.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, I work with, you know, dudes in their 50s that are trying to create market products and market things to.
Speaker C:This sounds weird, but, like, you know people in their 20s.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:It's not for you, man.
Speaker C:It doesn't matter if you think it's right.
Speaker C:It matters if they think it's right.
Speaker C:Which, thankfully these people, you know, they.
Speaker C:They thought they had identified their target market and they were asking you what you thought of it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So good.
Speaker C:You know, and I think that's.
Speaker A:I think that's the best reaction, realistically.
Speaker A:That's also the reaction we got.
Speaker A:But it's something that they didn't know.
Speaker A:They didn't know yet.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:It's someone you talk about.
Speaker C:As long as you can see that.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker C:That's classic projects to see it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's a problem.
Speaker A:It's the worst because that's like.
Speaker A:It's classic project management.
Speaker A:They say, you know, there's, you know, there's the knowns, there's the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that was one of those.
Speaker A:Where they were.
Speaker A:It was so earnest in the best possible way.
Speaker A:And they were.
Speaker A:It was a great question.
Speaker B:And we did end up.
Speaker B:They really respected what we said and it was.
Speaker B:It was great because we left that with a mutual, like, understanding.
Speaker B:They left with that little bit of knowledge.
Speaker B:And I'm going to be really excited to see where they land with that blend.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And honestly, the big thing for me is going to be when we end up going to that.
Speaker B:That restaurant, that coffee shop.
Speaker B:I'm not quite exactly clear what they're gonna be doing.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Is, you know, how are they brewing it and what's it gonna be like when we're in the store there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because they sound like they've got a really cool space.
Speaker B:And that was the other thing.
Speaker B:Their coffee they were going for.
Speaker B:It was Portuguese, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they were going for this specific flavor profile that they had in mind.
Speaker A:And then you.
Speaker A:Then they tasted and they were executing.
Speaker B:From what they were saying.
Speaker B:So, you know, like we said, it's what they were looking for, was what.
Speaker B:And it's not typically like what you're used to.
Speaker B:It's not typically what Wade roasts.
Speaker A:Yeah, no.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It was a great experience for me to be able to, you know, do some of that education too.
Speaker A:Like you're talking about with marketing is, hey, everybody needs to learn something.
Speaker C:And every day.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, that's kind of what I wanted to, you know, lead up to as we're going towards closing out is, you know, what.
Speaker A:What's something, you know, that you learned during marketing?
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:Creating your own brand that's like your brand that you learned that you've started to apply to some of your other customers.
Speaker C:Oh, shit.
Speaker C:That's actually a very good question.
Speaker C:Please cut out my rambling while I think about it.
Speaker A:No, it's all right.
Speaker A:Because I'm the interesting.
Speaker A:The reason I ask is because, like, that's the weakest thing I do is marketing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I love, I love the meat, I love having the conversations.
Speaker A:I like doing the technical.
Speaker A:I'm terrible at the marketing side.
Speaker A:And part of this is like, me one, I always want to learn from somebody that's really good at.
Speaker A:And I just looked at the Stay Calm industry website.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, those are really on point branding.
Speaker A:Like, the images are tight.
Speaker A:The brands look like they really know who they are.
Speaker A:And when you do something for yourself, it always feels a little bit different.
Speaker C:I guess the, the most interesting thing for me was I worked with my team as a client.
Speaker C:You know, I, I was on the other side of the table.
Speaker C:I was working with my lead graphic designer and my digital marketing manager to design the brand, design the packaging, build the website, to do everything right.
Speaker C:So I was able to at least somewhat get a outside perspective of how my team works, what it's like to be a client for us and how.
Speaker C:How we do what we do.
Speaker C:You know, obviously I wasn't also on the other side of the table managing all the things right, but that was probably the most interesting thing that I experienced and that I can also take to other branding, website and, you know, marketing projects as we move forward of, hey, this was a weak spot.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:I saw this was a strength.
Speaker C:This was, you know, how we can smooth out this process so it's a little less overwhelming, but still gives the client everything that they need, that sort of thing, you know, because Everybody has the same tools.
Speaker C:Everybody has, you know, Illustrator and Meta Advertising and, you know, Wix or Squarespace or whatever.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:WordPress, whatever you want to use.
Speaker C:Everybody has the same tools.
Speaker C:It all depends on how you use them and what kind of processes and systems you put in place around them.
Speaker C:And that, that's where I learned things, how we work our processes and systems and how we can refine those.
Speaker A:What, what a valuable, what a valuable experience, though, just.
Speaker A:And even the little things, because, like, I'm sure, you know, like, it's always the little things that makes them want to come back.
Speaker A:It's not always the big things.
Speaker C:Those are the things that make them smile.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:Like, if you look at the back of the bag on the UPC code, there's.
Speaker C:It's sitting on a bed because you have Papua New guinea astral projection.
Speaker C:And you know, it's, it's those little tiny things that like.
Speaker C:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker C:I'm going to keep doing this.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Well, and as a, I'm a, I'm also a graphics nerd.
Speaker B:You know, I don't do anything professionally with it.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker C:Oh, I don't either.
Speaker C:I can't work Illustrator for the life of me anymore.
Speaker B:Oh, see, that's me in Photoshop.
Speaker B:I love Illustrator.
Speaker C:So, like, I can't do any of it.
Speaker B:I looked at this and I was like, oh, this is such a cool concept.
Speaker B:I would have loved, like, putting this together.
Speaker B:You know, it was a lot of fun.
Speaker B:And then those little, those little things are really cool to notice that somebody cared about to kind of modify a little bit.
Speaker B:Like, you could have just slapped that QR code on there or that barcode and it would have been fine.
Speaker C:White on black and would have been fine.
Speaker B:Yeah, it would have been fine.
Speaker B:Nobody would have blinked an eye.
Speaker B:Nobody would have, you know, thought it was bad.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, you know, you guys took the time to.
Speaker B:Care to put that on there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I've got a couple other things that I was thinking about when you, when you told me about marketing stuff.
Speaker B:The first one was, have you, I'm sure you've heard of brew watches.
Speaker C:Of course.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What's, you know, from a marketing perspective, really more than, you know, a watch quality perspective.
Speaker B:What is your take on what they're doing there?
Speaker C:I mean, I think quality wise, they're, they're great.
Speaker C:I've played with more than a few of them at various Lehigh Valley watch.
Speaker C:Meetups.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker C:And then as far as marketing goes, listen, man, they found a niche.
Speaker C:They found where Another niche overlaps and they.
Speaker C:They grew into that and he's.
Speaker C:I have not had the pleasure of meeting Bradley.
Speaker C:I think it is.
Speaker B:Is it really Bradley?
Speaker A:I see a founder and designer, Jonathan Ferrer.
Speaker B:I was gonna say you're thinking of.
Speaker C:Cut that.
Speaker B:You're thinking of Bradley Price of Autodromo.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker B:Which is actually who I've got on today, so.
Speaker C:Oh, well, there you go.
Speaker C:I've heard he's the nicest guy.
Speaker C:Please cut that.
Speaker C:Wrong name.
Speaker A:No problem.
Speaker C:But I've heard he's the nicest guy.
Speaker C:And it's not like.
Speaker C:It's like, you know, some flash in the pan startup.
Speaker C:He's been doing this for a while.
Speaker C:He's dedicated to it.
Speaker C:He puts out a great product and yeah, it's cool.
Speaker C:He found a market and he's grown into it.
Speaker B:And the other little funny thing is we talked about this a little while ago.
Speaker B:I'm sure you've heard of Death Wish coffee.
Speaker C:I have.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:I have not had it, but I have heard of it.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:You know, you could try it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In my opinion, yours is much better, so.
Speaker C:Oh, thank you.
Speaker C:So similar naming concept, but I'm curious if you guys have ever had this.
Speaker C:Have you had Black Blood of the Earth?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:No, I haven't heard of that one.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:I had this years ago.
Speaker C:I don't even know if they're still in business, but.
Speaker C:Is a super concentrated cold brew made by a.
Speaker C:A health and safety engineer at a nuclear power plant.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:It sounds about right.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And it comes in like, basically like one of those, like, bourbon bottles, you know, and you, you drink it like, you know, it's a.
Speaker C:It's a nice bourbon that you're sipping or something.
Speaker C:He recommends not drinking, you know, more than X amount or else you might have a heart attack.
Speaker C:You should check that out.
Speaker C:Just, you know, hearing Death Wish, Black Blood of the Earth.
Speaker A:I just got to the website and there could not be a more engineer.
Speaker A:Yeah, engineer.
Speaker A:College program or website.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:It's very much.
Speaker C:Oh, you work in it, not design.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:That is like.
Speaker A:It could not be more that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then where I was going to go was depending on how nerdy you are.
Speaker B:You might have heard of.
Speaker B:Do you know Spruj at all?
Speaker C:No, I have no idea what that is.
Speaker B:Scrutch.
Speaker B:It's a coffee platform.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They've grown quite a bit.
Speaker B:They were.
Speaker B:I think it was.
Speaker B:Were they just Instagram originally?
Speaker A:I mean, they were pretty early, so.
Speaker B:They were very Twitter.
Speaker B:I Think they were just mostly on Twitter for a while.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But they.
Speaker B:They now do a lot of news and articles and things.
Speaker B:Gonna send you a.
Speaker B:If I can find my.
Speaker B:I left my.
Speaker B:There's my show.
Speaker B:A link.
Speaker B:And what they have done is there's another company called Death Before Decaf.
Speaker B:Have you had to deal with any sort of copyright stuff with logos you've made or just images you guys have used at all?
Speaker B:Like, in terms of somebody thinking that your stuff is too close to theirs or anything else?
Speaker C:No, we do.
Speaker C:We do a pretty.
Speaker C:We do a pretty solid search for things ahead of, you know, putting anything live.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:We've had to deal with some.
Speaker C:Some licensing payments for fonts and stuff.
Speaker C:But, you know, we've been doing this 11 years.
Speaker C:Who hasn't?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, it's an annoyance when it happens.
Speaker A:And then the, you know, the worst case, like, I ran a service for a few years and we got, you know, we got a CND and we had to rebrand.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, we ended up.
Speaker A:We ended up with a better brand.
Speaker A:We ended up with a better logo.
Speaker C:And I'll tell you a story someday.
Speaker A:Yeah, we did.
Speaker A:We did take the best advantage of it, even though it was disheartening at the moment.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, you know, ask me what I did all of November and why I have new merch for my company.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I was curious if you have a second to look at those logos.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And wanted to see if you think that they are as close as Death Wish thinks.
Speaker B:So it was Death Wish saying that Death Before Decaf was infringing on their.
Speaker B:Their likeness, I think is essentially what they were saying there.
Speaker C:Lawsuit notes that both Salkau black bags and feature skull and crossbones imagery in the.
Speaker C:Brandon Marcus straight ahead.
Speaker C:I mean, listen, I'm no.
Speaker C:I'm no IP lawyer.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:My guess is going to be that Death Wish Coffee company is a much larger company than Death Before Decaf.
Speaker B:You're probably correct on that.
Speaker A:Probably.
Speaker A:Significantly.
Speaker C:Probably.
Speaker C:And my guess is that a overzealous lawyer somewhere thought working for Death Wish, saw Death Before Decaf and said, well, no, that has a skull and two cross things.
Speaker C:That's too close.
Speaker A:We have to protect our brand.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker C:That's exactly.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker C:And to be fair, if you don't protect your brand, you don't get to keep it.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So, fine.
Speaker C:There are nice ways to do it and there are mean ways to do it.
Speaker C:I don't know if they did it in a nice way or a mean way.
Speaker C:My Guess is that it wasn't the owners, like, being scared.
Speaker C:It was lawyers saying, hey, this is, in my professional opinion, a little too close.
Speaker C:And I'll tell you that the most careful and precise lawyers I've ever dealt with are IP lawyers.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You kind of have to be.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's, you know, it.
Speaker A:It sucks, but it's also a fight.
Speaker A:It's a fine line between, yes, we have to protect it.
Speaker A:No, we don't want to be bad actors in the community.
Speaker A:Or at some point, you're so big, you don't care anymore.
Speaker A:So, well.
Speaker C:Or also, like, hey, and I'm not saying this is the case, but, like, hey, this is a little too close.
Speaker C:You got to back off a little, you know?
Speaker C:You know, and just.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because sometimes small, upstart players don't get it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, we've all.
Speaker A:We've all made mistakes on things.
Speaker A:Like I said, I.
Speaker A:I know I've done it.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I covered in a recent episode of my show because we just did retrospective after three years of doing it.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:And, you know, you learn a lot.
Speaker A:You learn a lot from making mistakes.
Speaker A:You learn a lot from doing things wrong.
Speaker C:Do.
Speaker C:And as long as you can afford the mistake, great.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:So I guess we're.
Speaker B:We're approaching an hour, as most people say here.
Speaker B:I did want to, you know, ask you, you know, before we come out there, you know, I know you kind of were hedging some comments about the future of cult leader coffee, but, you know, what can we expect?
Speaker B:You know, where is your.
Speaker B:Your dream goal with this?
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:Or maybe not your dream, but, like, what do you, you know, what do you want to be doing with the long term?
Speaker C:I mean, you know, like I said, this can sit there and it can cost me money and can just sit there and grow, you know, as long as more people next month try my coffee than the previous month.
Speaker C:As long as more members are joining, cool.
Speaker C:You know, it.
Speaker C:This isn't paying my rent.
Speaker C:I'm not worried about what it's doing, which seems very, you know, low commitment, low effort, probably to your audience.
Speaker C:But I just.
Speaker C:I think I'm in a very lucky position where I get the ability to start, you know, kind of a hobby business and just let it do its thing for upcoming things.
Speaker C:We are planning a.
Speaker C:My roaster will kill me for this, but we are planning a light roast.
Speaker C:We are planning some stuff from South America and from Africa, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And we're also.
Speaker C:And I kind of want to get your Guys's opinion on this.
Speaker C:We launched with a espresso roast.
Speaker C:From what I'm seeing, not many people, enthusiasts don't drink specifically espresso roast for espresso.
Speaker C:And non enthusiasts see espresso roast and think, oh, that's not for me.
Speaker C:So we're thinking about just rebranding it to like super dark roast or something.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Because you guys will put anything in espresso machine.
Speaker C:It doesn't matter.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:You think we should change the name there?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I would.
Speaker A:I mean, hell, I'd lean in.
Speaker A:I'd lean into the brand.
Speaker A:I wouldn't even call it dark.
Speaker A:I would call it, you know, I'd lean into.
Speaker C:Well, it's already rise from the dead.
Speaker C:Oh, there you go.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker B:I mean, you.
Speaker B:You know, from marketing, this goes back to the.
Speaker B:What's your target audience?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:There are.
Speaker B:There are people out there that will see that and be like, this is what I need to buy.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This is for espresso.
Speaker B:And espresso is great.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:But it's that less than it used to be.
Speaker B:Yeah, well.
Speaker B:And you're looking at, you know, how many people have espresso machines at home, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do you have, by the way?
Speaker C:I have a.
Speaker C:So when the pandemic kicked off, I bought my wife and I a.
Speaker C:Oh, what did we call it?
Speaker C:A.
Speaker C:Just a.
Speaker C:It was a pandemic present.
Speaker C:And I got us a barista express.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:A Breville Barista Express.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, it's not some fancy manual thing, but it does a really good job for automatic.
Speaker C:Yeah, it does a good job.
Speaker A:It does a really good job.
Speaker A:I've had stuff from it recently.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:Pretty tasty.
Speaker B:Well, and you know, bad.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is what James Hoffman bruise on who.
Speaker B:Who is a major, you know, name in Coffee on YouTube.
Speaker B:He's, you know, probably credited with, you know, really putting coffee on a larger scale to people in terms of his YouTube channel and what he's done.
Speaker C:You probably know who that is.
Speaker B:Dude, go look him up.
Speaker B:You'll nerd out.
Speaker B:He's got hundreds of videos at this point.
Speaker A:World barista champion.
Speaker A:Like, one of the.
Speaker A:Also one of the prettiest YouTube channels out there.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker C:Oh, okay, Pete.
Speaker A:When it comes to video and it's amazing production levels, but also the topics are really good and gets you into lots of different stuff.
Speaker A:But yeah, he's awesome.
Speaker B:And he's got a book, the World Atlas of Coffee, which among coffee nurses.
Speaker C:I have that book my review recommended to me.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Everybody picks it up, so.
Speaker C:Okay, good.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:Super cool.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, I was debating getting an espresso machine, and so, you know, I saw the espresso roast and was like, you know, if I pick up that espresso machine, that'll have to go in it.
Speaker C:There you go.
Speaker B:But I think that's, you know, that's the thing with an espresso roast is you're hitting a specific demographic there with that at this point.
Speaker B:So I know Chris and I probably perked up when you talked about doing light roast and some other stuff from Africa, which is more up our alleys there to.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:No, that's awesome.
Speaker A:So looks like everybody can go to cultleadercoffee.com to shop, and looks like you can buy on the website there.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:USPS shipping.
Speaker C:You can even get subscriptions.
Speaker A:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker A:And also looks like you can follow along with what's going on on Cult Leader Coffee on Instagram as well.
Speaker C:Yep, that's right.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And commune with them on your caffeinated journey.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker C:So join the cult.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:And any other.
Speaker A:Any other plugs you want to put out before we close out?
Speaker C:I mean, listen, if you, like watches, check out tgn.
Speaker C:If you need marketing, check out Stay Calm Industries.
Speaker A:I know, I know.
Speaker A:Certain.
Speaker A:Certain people in the room definitely are definitely need help, so.
Speaker B:Both of us.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker C:We're happy to help now, but, you.
Speaker A:Know, really appreciate your time as, you know.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker C:It was my pleasure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Great to learn about everything that you're doing.
Speaker A:And, man, it's.
Speaker A:It's great to see people getting into coffee that are trying to do something a little bit different and are making people more into coffee, and that's.
Speaker A:That's what we really want out of everything.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And just more enthusiasts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And super thanks for, you know, indulging me and helping us do what we do here.
Speaker B:You know, I was.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was a little, like, skeptical.
Speaker B:I'm like, this guy's not even gonna deal with me at all.
Speaker B:And then you were like, yeah, here's coffee.
Speaker B:Yes, I'll be on your podcast.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I was like, this guy's awesome.
Speaker C:I appreciate that.
Speaker C:I appreciate that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I had a great time.
Speaker C:This was a fun podcast to be on.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:All right, well, thanks, Evan.
Speaker B:I'm sure we'll be talking and we'll see you soon.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Appreciate it.
Speaker A:And if you're interested in learning more about the Lunchadore Podcast network.
Speaker A:Go to lunchadore.org to check out all of the shows.
Speaker A:Would recommend you check out one of our shows Coming up on their second anniversary, the behind the Glass Podcast.
Speaker A:Underrepresented visual artists in Rochester doing great work.
Speaker A:After this comes out, we'll already have their second anniversary show, so hopefully stay tuned for that and we'll be back next time with more on the Level Up Coffee Podcast.
Speaker A:This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker A:The darker the better.
